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Interviews with slorc defectors
- Subject: Interviews with slorc defectors
- From: bagp@xxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 08 Mar 1995 13:25:00
In October 1994 Myayadana Magazine published by the Green November 32 carried the following interview with one of the 11 defectors from the SLORC Army.
WALKING INTO THE LIGHT
Our team travelled to Bawnawlay, a KNU outpost set against the backdrop of the Dawna mountain ranges where two mighty rivers, Thaung Yin and Salween meander through deep-green forests.
We were to interview eleven Burmese soldiers who defected to the Army of the DAB (Democratic Alliance of Burma) only a few days before.
When we arrived at the camp, we saw them enjoying a conversation with KNU soldiers against whom they had fought on these mountains. They were still in their teens and only one or two were in their twenties. The shadow of hardship, and marks that malaria had left on their faces were still visible.
The interview started with the oldest soldier of the group.
Q. Your name please?
A. My name is Naing Win.
Q. How old are you?
A. 25.
Q. What nationality are you?
A. I am a Burmese (Meaning Burman).
Q. And you are a Buddhist?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you married?
A. Yes.
Q. Where were you born?
A. Waw town, Pegu Division.
Q. And your parents?
A. My mother passed away and my dad is in my home town.
Q. Did you go to school at all?
A. I studied until 5th standard (middle school).
Q. What was your position in the Army?
A. As a lance-corporal before and as a private now.
Q. How? Can you explain?
A. I joined the Army once in 1986.
Q. Which battalion?
A. Light ~Infantry 44 at Kimmon Camp ( Kyaikhto, Mon State).
Q. What did you have to do then?
A. I was sent to join the military training at Regiment 62 in Mudon, Mon State.
Q. How long did it take? The training.
A. 4 months, after which I was sent back to my mother unit. They (the Army) transferred me to battalion 59 five years later.
Q. Did they (BSPP then) teach you any political ideology?
A. No. Military training only.
Q. You attained the position of lance corporal then?
A. Yes.
Q. What were you required to do as a lance corporal?
A. I had to go to the front line.
Q. Where?
A. Mawthawaw, Manerplaw, Hteemukhee, etc in Karen State.
Q. Where were you last sent to?
A. Byatkaw. I was wounded there and sent back to the base (front line) in Hteemukhee.
Q. Were you treated?
A. Yes. But I was sent again to Tanku village near Kyaikgyi town as my wound was not healed at the field hospital.
Q. Can you recount what you had experienced while you were in the hospital?
A. I received a telegram from my family informing me of my mother's death.
Q. Did you request a leave to go home?
A. Yes. But they wouldn't me permit me to. At this point, I fled from the army.
Q. Did they do anything to arrest you?
A. Yes. But since I was hiding with my grandma and sisters in a remote village called Layeinsu, they wouldn't get me back.
Q. Then why are you back in the Army again?
A. I was assuming that they couldn't reach me. Then one night, the police, the Army along with the local SLORC ambushed me and I was taken back. And they told me to choose either to go back to my mother unit or to go to jail. I was worried that even if I went back to where I once belonged, I would be put in jail. So I said I would join the Army again as a new recruit. They agreed and put me in Waw police detention center for 5 days. Then I was sent to Oaktwin military training school.
Q. How much did you get paid as a lance-corporal?
A. 800 K.
Q. You got paid fully?
A. I would get about half of my salary after various cuts.
Q. What made you join the Army in the first place?
A. I was working at a motor workshop. But I was depressed with my work and decided to join the Army.
Q. When did you join the Army for the second time?
A. 1992.
Q. What forced you to join the Army for the second time?
A. I would be put in prison if I didn't.
Q. Do you know any of the forced conscripts in your town?
A. Yes. There are around 20 wards in out town. SLORC's orders were to obtain 300 new recruits from the town in a month. The local SLORC then ordered the community leaders to contribute 25 people from each ward. If a family has a male (single), the order for them is compulsory (to join the Army). If they refuse, the SLORC threaten to detain them. And the headmen of the wards who defy the order or can not come up with the quota will also be given the same prison term. That spurred them on to get the demanded quota of new recruits for the Army.
Q. How about the families who have no sons who are single?
A. Women would be taken instead. Once they are taken they are required to perform such work as separating insects and small unwanted particles from among the rice. They are forced to work for 5 or 6 months at a time. Men who are taken are forced to sign a 5 year contract to serve in the Army.
Q. They are to be discharged from the Army once the contract expires?
A. I don't think so. Even when the soldiers are killed at the front line, their families will get nothing for such a sacrifice.
Q. Do they have any age limit to join the Army?
A. No. They (SLORC) have set up many new regiments. So the most important thing for them is to assemble as many new recruits as possible. There are also many 50 year old men. But they do not draft 60 year olds into the Army. The youngest will be 14 or 15.
Q. What is the penalty for refusing to join the Army?
A. Two or three years in prison. In some cases, they will not be released even if their prison terms have expired. The SLORC will use them in the construction of railways and roads. If the inmates do not want to go to labor camps such as these, they will have to bribe the prison authorities, which can cost up to ten or twenty thousand K.
Q. What were you required to do when you joined the Army again?
A. I was required to attend military training at Taunggoolay Military Training School, Oaktwin.
Q. How many trainees then.. do you know?
A. There were many training sessions. One group had 250 men.
Q. What were you trained in and how long did they take?
A. Small arms, artillery and mines, and it took four months.
Q. Did they again teach you human rights and any politics?
A. No.
Q. Can you explain the relationship between the trainers and the trainees?
A. They overloaded us with training and work. They would also beat us at random. Also at weekends, we had no time to take a rest as we had to look for firewood or do household work for the trainers. And it was worse when they got drunk.
Q. Where were you sent after the training?
A. 434 in Papun, Karen State.
Q. Can you tell me the numbers of battalions?
A. Light Infantry 19, battalions 431, 241, 340, 434.
Q. How many soldiers altogether?
A. About 6000.
Q. How many are there in 434?
A. About 450.
Q. Can you explain the general situation in the Army? I mean food, shelter, medical care, etc.
A. Nothing is good. The year 1992 was the worst. There was never enough medicine. The food was always bad. You had to buy medicine for yourself. If you were sick with malaria, you would be given only the half of a anti-malarial Chloroquine tablet. Some soldiers committed suicide as they could not stand the harsh realities in the Army.
Q. Do you know how many?
A. In our battalion 434 alone there were 25 suicides in one year. The commander would report that these people were killed in action.
Q. How much is a soldier paid now?
A. 750 K. But we would only get 300 K after various cuts.
Q. How about other food supplies.
A. 3 (condensed milk) tins of rice per person per day. Beans with insects, fish paste with lice in it, etc. 3 uniforms (shirts) and 1 pair of trousers a year. The rest you would have to buy yourself.
Q. How about at the outpost where you were posted last?
A. All privates are the same.
Q. How about the officers?
A. They can eat chicken or fish.
Q. Tell us about your outpost.
A. Ours was point 1653. It is known as Naypukhan Gyaw as there are no trees and is exposed to the sun.
Q. How many of you were there?
A. Two sessions and a sergeant major and two corporals.
Q. Do you know the officers from 434?
A. Major Tin Maung Aye is the commander. Captain Hla Myint. Our company commander is Captain Aung Naing. Sergeant-major Han Tun.
Q. Who was in charge of point 1653?
A. Sergeant Major Han Tun, Lance-corporal Than Tun and Thein Win.
Q. Is there any other outpost near point 1653?
A. There is Kyauk Taung. There are two companies there.
Q. Why were you sent to the outpost?
A. To control the area and clear it of the enemy.
Q. What is the logistic command there?
A. 19.
Q. Are there any villages near your outpost?
A. There are two; Uthukhee and Borabar villages.
Q. What is the relation between the officers of the outposts and villagers?
A. They ordered us to bring villagers in to work for them. We did not want to do that. If we refused, we would also be detained along with the villagers. The villages would be beaten, being accused of having been in contact with Nga Pway (karen), forced to stay out in the sun or they would not be given food. The officers would also use burned knives to burn the skin of the villagers. In some cases, villagers would be killed. I was also beaten for refusing an order to bring some villagers in.
Q. How...can you explain?
A. I was once ordered to bring in some villagers. They would be required to cut trees for firewood. When I refused, I was detained. Sergeant Major Han Tun tied me up, forced me to stay out under the sun and then lashed me with a rope. See here are scars sustained from the beating (shows his scars on his spine).
Q. What did you do when you caught the Karen soldiers?
A. We told them to pray and then killed them. Sometimes, livers would be taken out to eat.
Q. What is the treatment when someone (a soldier) is wounded?
A. While we came to our outpost, Light Infantry 1 accompanied us there. There were 4 regiments in all; 413, 430 and 343. We started from Thahton. We began to walk from Natgyi. Then one night while we were crossing a stream, some soldiers stepped on the landmines on the other side. Four soldiers were killed and two more wounded, one seriously. He was killed by an officer as he was being a burden.
Q. Can you tell us how porters are treated?
A. They are treated as if they are animals; they are forced to work tirelessly; they are not given enough food. If there is a battle, they will be pushed forward. Some are caught in the crossfire and killed. Sometimes, since they do have enough food, they have to eat various leaves they find in the jungle and get Cholera or Dysentry and die. People try to run away and if they are caught, they will be shot to death. Those who are too weak to work will also be put to death.
Q. Is it also true that the soldiers poison lakes and steams in some villages?
A. Yes. When people drink poisoned water, their flesh will become swollen or blue, or they will have watery stool. They practice in the villages that they do not like.
Q. Who orders such acts?
A. The company commander makes the order and the sergeant major or the sergeant will have to do it.
Q. How are porters rounded up in villages?
A. When the SLORC military columns patrol or go to the frontline, they need porters to carry their supplies or they will need porters to send supplies to front line, they go into the villages and round up as many men as we can get.
Q. How about porter fees?
A. When we round up porters, and when they cannot perform the work or do not want to be enlisted, they can hire other people. A military column sometimes takes from 6 months to one year to complete its tour of duty. Porters will not be allowed to go home until such a column goes home. A family in a village is required to pay 150 K a day, if they cannot send anyone for portorage. The money will have to be paid to the commander. Porters are hardly paid. All the money goes into the pockets of the commanders.
Q. How do you get your food supplies at the outposts?
A. We get them from the villages nearby. The villages on the other side of Yonsalin river are required to contribute about 325 lb of rice a year if they have one acre of paddy field.
Q. How about porter fees in your home town?
A. A family will have to pay 200 K a month. When people cannot pay, they are ordered through the community leaders to comply with the orders of the SLORC, and if they do not they are threatened with being taken away.
Q. How did you escape from your outpost?
A. We had been repressed for so long. We could not tolerate it any longer. On the night of our escape, the officers were playing cards. When the lance-corporal lost the game, he ordered us to massage him. He then beat all of us saying our massage was not good enough. He always behaved this way whenever he lost at gambling. When the young boys wanted to run away, I told them that it would be safer to run away only after we had killed them. That's why we, Zaw Win Naing, Medic San Lwin and myself, killed all the officers during the sentry shift at mid night and escaped from the camp.
Q. How did you escape?
A. We asked the headman of Uthukhee village to get us in touch with the KNU (Karen National Union) on 5.6.94. The KNU welcomed us.
Q. What do you think the SLORC will do to your parents since you escaped from the Army.
A. I have no idea.
Q. What do you think you are going to do in the future?
A. I think I will work with one of the groups here (Manerplaw).
1. NOTE: The SLORC Army regiment 19 arrested U Shwe Aye, the headmen of Uthukhee in Papun District and horticulturist, on 9.6.94. They took out his eyes and killed him. Along with him three other villagers were also killed. Moreover, they set fire to the whole village which had about 50 houses. The reason is that when the soldiers regiment19 and 4 other battalions failed to locate the 11 missing soldiers, they went to Uthukhee which was the nearest village to the outpost point 1653, and detained U Shwe Aye and 3 other villagers for failing to report to the Army in time.
2. NOTE: Among 11 soldiers to have defected to the democratic forces in Manerplaw, only two of them are over 20 years. It is very clear that the young soldiers must have been forced into the Army while most of them were 14 or 15. The following are the short biographies of young soldiers (under 20), all of whom are from the Light Infantry 434, based in Papun, Karen State.
1.
Name San Lwin
Age 18
Parents' names U Kyi & Daw Nyunt Shein
Race/religion Burman/ Buddhist
Address Quarter 5, Thaketa township,
Rangoon
BC 850951
Position Medic (Private)
The year he joined the Army 1990
2.
Name Zaw Win Naing
Age 17
Parents' names U Aung Din & Daw Thein Yin
Race/ religion Burman/Buddhist
Address QUarter 1, Yetashe, Pegu Division
BC 898999
Position Private
The year he joined the Army 1991
3.
Name Ye Win Htike
Age 17
Parents' names U Thein Myint & Daw Khin Nyo
Race/religion Burman/Buddhist
Address Railway House, Panbetan, Rangoon
BC 850951
Position Private
The year he joined the Army 1991
4.
Name Moe Kyaw Soe
Age 16
Parents' names U Soe Myint & Daw Tin Htay
Race/religion Burman/Buddhist
Address Zeephyuchaung village, Daydayae
Irradeddy Division
BC 895505
Position Private
The year he joined the Army 1991
5.
Name Moe Kyaw
Age 16
Parents' names U Kyaw Shein & Daw Nwe Aye
Race/religion Burman/Buddhist
Address Kwangyangone township, Rangoon
Division
BC 895468
Position Private
The year he joined the Army 1991
6.
Name Zaw Min *
Age 17
Parents' names U Maung Han & Daw Thein Tin
Race/religion Burman/Buddhist
Address Thakala, Kawa twnship, Pegu
Division
BC 895561
Position Private
The year he joined the Army 1991
7.
Name Aye Shwe
Age 18
Parents' names U San Khin & Daw Khin Thaung
Race/religion Burman/Buddhist
Address Shwepyithar Quarter, Myonyo, Pegu
Division
BC 899058
Position Private
The year he joined the Army 1991
8.
Name Aung Soe Moe
Age 20
Parents' names U Gyi & Daw Khin Ohn Myint
Race/religion Burman/Buddhist
Address Kyaukgyi township, Pegu Division
BC 850829
The year he joined the Army 1990
9.
Name Than Tun
Age 19
parents' names U Than Maung & Daw Myint Kyi
Race/religion Burman/Buddhist
Address Oakpho Quarter 1, 38th St. Paungte
town, Pegu Division
BC 850425
Position Private
The year he joined the Army 1990
* No.6
Zaw Min's Story
I have spoken to all the defectors listed above, but I will retell the story of Zaw Min, as he told it to me, as he comes from my home town, Thakala in Pegu division, and I knew his parents.
In 1990 Zaw Min was fourteen years old. He was a pupil at a local school, and was in the 8th standard. One night he stayed behind at school to play football with a few of his friends. When they had finished, and were walking home, they were stopped by a group of soldiers intent upon rounding up porters. They never made it home, despite the fact that Zaw Min lived only 400 metres from his school. Still in their school uniforms, Zaw Min and four of his friends were taken to a nearby military base in Pegu where the porters, recently rounded up from the cinemas, tea shops, street corners and families of the area, were being assembled. As they were being processed, the base commander noticed their school uniforms, and decided that rather than be drafted into forced porterage, they should be sent to an army recruitment centre for training. They were to be soldiers.
Back at home, their parents had no real idea why the boys had not come home that night. They suspected of course that they had been taken by the army, but were given no concrete information. It was not until 1993, three years after the five friends disappeared, that Zaw Min and one of the other boys taken that night were considered loyal enough to be given home leave, and so let their parents know where they were and what they were doing. Zaw Min had no idea where the other three friends had been posted.
Zaw Min's experience of the army was tough. Moral was low, and the conditions hard. His friend, who had been taken at the same time as Zaw Min, was based at another outpost in the Papun area, and after three months reached a point of such despair, that he cut off his both his own trigger fingers so that he could be sent back away from the front line. He was sent back, and expected to face a court martial for self-inflicted, but was fortunate in that the commander's wife intervened and saved his life. He is now working as a domestic servant in the commander's house. As for Zaw Min and many others, they too found themselves desperate to get out. Instead of self mutilation, they decided to desert, and escape to the KNU and the NLD, the story of which is told above.
Speaking to Zaw Min, since his defection to the KNU, one can see that he needs time to recover from the mental scars which he has suffered since 1990, and also time to readjust to his new circumstances. He is confused, and unsure of his future direction. He cannot think about resuming his studies at the moment, but needs time to sort out his thoughts.
Naing Luu Aung
Translator of the interview
PO Box 42 Huamark Post Office 10243
Bangkok
Thailand