KHRG #95-24 Part 2/3 (38kB)

[smith@xxxxxxxxxx]

=09=09  SLORC / DKBA ACTIVITIES:
=09=09  NORTHERN KAREN DISTRICTS

     An Independent Report by the Karen Human Rights Group
=09=09 July 18, 1995 / KHRG #95-24

     [PART 2 OF 3 - SEE OTHER POSTINGS FOR PARTS 1 AND 3]

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[All of the following interviews (#P9-P19) were conducted in refugee
camps in Thailand with recent arrivals.]

=09=09=09=09 #P9.

NAME:    "Saw Robert"    SEX: M    AGE: 28       Karen Christian farmer
FAMILY:  Married, 3 children aged 5 months to 5 years
ADDRESS: Wah Mi Day village, Papun Township      INTERVIEWED:  25/6/95

I came here together with my wife and children.  We arrived on
June 20th.  It took us 3 days to come directly here.  We slept
in villages along the way.  Our village is 7 miles from Papun.
 Life over there is very hard.  We are farmers, but every month
we have to go for 10 days as porters for the [SLORC] Army.  If
we can't go for 10 days when our turn comes, we have to pay 2,500
Kyat.  We can't afford this because we are poor, so we fled to
the border.  When you can't pay, the SLORC soldiers come to the
village, take you by force and never release you.  You have to
take risks and escape from them.  If not, you will be a porter
until you die.  The other reason we came is that SLORC told us
we could only stay one more year in Wah Mi Day village and that
next year they will move us to Khaw Taw Pu. [note: right now,
SLORC is forcibly relocating villages from remoter areas to Wah
Mi Day.  See the SLORC order and related interviews in this report.
 By 'next year' he means sometime after rainy season.]

We have had to work for the soldiers for almost 10 years.  At
first it was more or less okay for us, but the longer you work
for them, the stricter the rules become.  Now it is the worst.
 The soldiers are from Papun.  #19 Battalion always asks for porter
fees.  We have to pay porter fees to three battalions in Papun:
#19, #341, and #434.  You have to pay 2,500 Kyat every time your
time as a porter comes and you can't go.  Each family also has
to pay 200 Kyat every month as regular porter fees.  We tried
to get this money by working hard.  All the money we can get,
we have to give all of it to them.  We have to pay whichever battalion
requests the money.

The soldiers come to the village very often, and they never bring
their own food with them, they just take the villagers' food by
force.  They don't bother to ask for permission, they just take
whatever they want.  We can't dare stop them.  Whenever they catch
villagers outside the village, if it's a man they beat him.  If
it's a woman, they don't beat her but they take her along as a
porter to their camp, like Ku Seik camp near Papun.

DKBA don't do anything to our villagers, but some villagers who
had connections with the KNLA troops were arrested, had their
guns taken away and they were taken to Khaw Taw Pu, where they
were made to drink the Buddhist monk's medicine.  I heard that
after drinking it a person changes, but whenever I saw DKBA soldiers
I didn't notice any difference.  Both SLORC and DKBA gave us the
order to move.  SLORC told us first, then the DKBA.  The villagers
said we don't want to move, we want to stay in our village.  So
they said they will come and take us by force to Khaw Taw.  They
=0C
sent us an order letter and they also told us.  After the headman
read the letter, he burned it.  They ordered all the village heads
to go to Papun and explained it to them at the beginning of this
rainy season [June].  The [SLORC] Strategic Commander in Papun
called the meeting.  The villages ordered to move were Klaw Hta,
Kaneh Haw Hta, Baw Kaw Der, Thay Pler Hta, Kler Der, Wah Mi Day,
Htee Kay Der, Thay Ko Der, Lay Wah, Ya Ploh Der, Maw Thay Der,
and ..., altogether 12 villages.  They are to move after rainy
season [after October].  The villagers have no idea at all what
to do about this.  Some think about running away, some think about
trying to stay in their village anyway, and some try to flee to
the border.  In Wah Mi Day village there were 20 households.=20
Now 3 families have come here [to Thailand].  The rest are still
living in the village, but all of them have made up their minds
to come over here because they cannot bear the suffering any more.
 If there are no problems along the way they will all come here,
because there is nowhere else they can go - the whole area is
full of SLORC troops.  I think no one can survive in Wah Mi Day
village anymore.  Even if people could survive there, life will
be just too difficult for them.  Only if there is no more fighting
in Burma, then I will want to go back.
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=09=09=09=09#P10.

NAME:    "Saw Hla Kyaw"   SEX: M   AGE: 38      Karen Christian farmer
FAMILY:  Married, 5 children aged 11 months to 15 years
ADDRESS: Thay Ko Der village, Papun Township    INTERVIEWED:  25/6/95

My whole family came together.  It took us 3 days to get here,
and we have been here for 8 days.  We came because the SLORC came
together with DKBA soldiers and destroyed all of our belongings,
so we had nothing left to eat.  They burned the houses just recently,
at the beginning of this month [actually on May 22].  There were
more than 200 soldiers.  Ten were DKBA and the rest were SLORC,
from #77 Division.  When they entered the village, they saw the
villagers running away from them so they shot at the villagers
but didn't hit anyone.  Then some of the soldiers took positions
outside the village and some right in the village.  They slept
3 nights in our village.  After the first night, there was fighting
[with KNLA] in the morning.  Then there was fighting again the
next morning.  On the third day they left, and when they left
they burned down the village.  There were 15 houses in Thay Ko
Der, and they burned more than 10 of them.  Three houses weren't
burned.  They also burned our rice.  Some of the rice was not
consumed by the fire, so they threw it around onto the ground
[rendering it useless].

During that time I ran away from the village.  All of us were
staying in the jungle while the Burmese were in the village.=20
We stayed together and slept in one place, and we had no food
to eat.  While they were in the village they captured 3 men and
5 women together with their children, and they tied them all up.
 I don't know exactly what they did to them all.  After they tied
up the men they kicked them, punched them and beat them.  I know
they tried to rape the women, but the women stopped them.  They
didn't release the women.  They made the women carry their loads
and took them to Papun, then they released them there [see the
related testimonies of 2 of the women from a village near Thay
Ko Der in this report].  They also released the men in Papun,
but some of the men ran away first.  Papun is 9 miles from Thay
Ko Der.  [He then provided names for the 3 men and 5 women, but
these are omitted here for their protection].  Two of the men
were quite young, and the oldest was about 40.  All the women
were about 25 or 30.  Three of the women are married and 2 are
single.

Now we don't know what to do, we just wonder what we can do for
=0C
the future.  Some of the villagers tried to get some rice from
their neighbours by exchanging whatever they had left.  [Most
villagers keep some rice and other belongings hidden in the forest
for eventualities like this.]  People cannot last long living
like that.  They can't do anything.  They said if possible, they
would all come here.  Now 3 households have come already.  The
others are still staying in that area, but not together at the
same place.  There are no families still staying in Thay Ko Der
village.

Before this happened, the DKBA already asked us to go back with
them [to Khaw Taw] and cooperate with them, and said if we did
not go they would come and burn and destroy our village.  SLORC
had already ordered us to go to Wah Mi Day village, but we didn't
go.  They called the village head to meet them in Papun.  They
also demanded money from the villagers, and when the villagers
couldn't pay they didn't dare stay in the village anymore.  They
[SLORC] also demanded roofing and bamboo for their camp, and they
made us go down to their camp.  Now they say they're going to
make a car road from Papun to Klaw Hta after rainy season.  I
don't know what for, maybe to send supplies to their troops.=20
They'll make the villagers build it for them.  Even the people
in Papun Town, they also have problems.  They have to be porters
and pay porter fees, and they have to work for SLORC just like
us.  As for DKBA, they asked for soldiers, but we paid no attention.
 DKBA also said they were going to get all the Christians [the
word translated here as 'get' can mean either 'wipe out' or 'capture'].

I didn't have much to bring along here with me.  This is all I
have [the clothes on his back].  I have one old blanket, and I
carried cooking pots with me.  Now we stay here with the others,
and eat together with them.  If there is no more fighting and
all is stable there, then I hope I can go back and stay.  I don't
think I can stay with the SLORC.  Also, I'm afraid of the DKBA.
 I'm not afraid of the KNU.  We don't have to be afraid of them.
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=09=09=09       #P11.

NAME:    "Saw Shwe Hla"   SEX: M   AGE: 44        Karen Christian farmer
FAMILY:  Married, 3 children aged 6,16, and 23    INTERVIEWED: 26/6/95
ADDRESS: Bwa Der village, Bu Tho Township, Papun District

We arrived here more than 3 weeks ago.  We came together with
3 families.  It took 5 days, because on the way we had to carry
some belongings and people had to carry their children.  There
were small children with us, and it was raining.  We came because
if SLORC or DKBA capture us they make us carry very heavy burdens,
then when we can't carry it they kick us, beat us, punch us.=20
So we were afraid and didn't dare stay in our village anymore.
 For our food we had to look for a little bit here, a little bit
there.  It was very hard for us.  There are now many more people
who want to come here, but now the SLORC is blocking their way
and they cannot come.

Even before the DKBA [before January 1995], the SLORC used to
come.  They took porters, and they forced us to go for free labour.
 At the time I was ill, so my juniors went instead of me.  Sometimes
we had to go for a month, sometimes a week or 10 days.  Those
who can't carry, the soldiers drag them to the side of the path
and kick and beat them and throw them by the side, and they manage
to come home by themselves.  Some die, because the soldiers kick
and beat them until they can't make it back by themselves.  SLORC
also asked us for porter fees when we couldn't go, and we had
to sell our cattle and buffalos to get money to pay their porter
fees.  Some had to pay 50 Kyat, some 200 Kyat, some 400 or 500
Kyat.  They forced us to pay.  Even if we had no money they wouldn't
=0C
understand, we just had to pay.  If you cannot pay, they do to
you whatever they wish.  This has happened since 1975.  Before,
we could pay the money and stay in our village.  Life was hard,
it was hard to live in our village, but we could stay there.=20
We had to worry for our food and fear the SLORC, but we could
survive.  But now the situation has changed, it's not like before.
 Whenever they come they kick, they punch, they beat us and they
burn down our houses, so we can't stay there anymore.

Now the DKBA are together with the SLORC, and they treat us the
same as the SLORC do.  The first time SLORC and DKBA came, they
said they will kill all the Christians.  The next time they ordered
us to go live at Khaw Taw, and we said "We won't go, you will
kill us there".  So they beat and kicked people.  That was in
March.  Some people from villages near Bwa Der who were not Christian
went, but no Christians went.  We heard that any Christians who
go there are treated very badly or killed.  The Ko Per Baw said
Christians also have to go, but when they get there they will
force them to put on the robes of Buddhist monks.  If the Christians
refuse this, I have no idea what they'll do to them.  Last month
in Bwa Der they burned the church, and many houses both where
the sun rises and where the sun sets [in both eastern and western
parts of the village], and rice barns and farm field huts.  They
took all our things that they wanted in the village.  Whatever
they didn't want or couldn't carry, they burned all of it.  When
they burned it, they came together with SLORC.  There were 7 Ko
Per Baw, and more than 100 SLORC soldiers [although according
to the testimony of several others, these two groups were separate
and did not arrive at the village together; DKBA arrived first
on their own].

The first time when SLORC came they burned down some houses in
Bwa Der, so people didn't dare stay in the village and they stayed
in the jungle around the village.  Then when the Ko Per Baw came
together with SLORC they burned down all the houses in the village.
 They burned 40 or 50 houses in the area.  In Bwa Der [main village]
there used to be 10 or 20 houses, but villagers had already moved
to here and there, so there were only six households still in
the main village.  The church was the first building they burned!
 The Ko Per Baw and SLORC carried the big church bell away back
to Khaw Taw [actually they were taking it to Meh Kay Kyaw, a pagoda
on the Salween River].  It was a big bell, like this [he showed=20
about =AB m. diameter].  This bell wasn't bought by the villagers,=20
we couldn't buy such a bell. It was donated by an old white=20
missionary.  While they were burning the houses and church no=20
villagers were in the village, we had all run and were hiding in=20
the forest around the village.  That night, the soldiers captured=20
7 people who went back to get their belongings.  I knew 3 of them -=20
P---, B---, and B---. The next morning the soldiers left=20
the village.  There was fighting not far away to the west, and all=20
7 men managed to escape.

My house was burned completely!  We came with only the clothes
on our bodies and a few small things.  Everything else was burned
and destroyed.  [The village was burned on May 5.]  We came and
crossed the Salween [river] and waited in Klay Hta to see if we'd
be able to go back again.  But the situation was only getting
worse and worse and we couldn't go back, so eventually we moved
here to the camp.  Along the way we just asked the Karen people
we knew from Thailand to help us.  We managed to get a little
bit of rice.  Also I had a little bit of money with me and I spent
it, so now I have nothing left.  Now there are six families here,
but others have gone to M--- and S--- camps [At the time of the
interview, there were at least 26 families from around Bwa Der
who had just arrived in camps].  Some are still left there because
the way here is blocked.  Life for them will be very hard, but
I think slowly, slowly, they will find some way to survive.  I
=0C
won't go back.  To go back now would only be looking for trouble.
 If there is no peace and they don't give us independence, nobody
will go back.  Dead or alive, we will stay here.
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=09=09=09     #P12.

NAME:    "Pa Ler Muh"    SEX: M   AGE: 47       Karen Christian farmer
FAMILY:  Married, no children                   INTERVIEWED:  26/6/95
ADDRESS: Toh Nya Der village, Par Haik village tract, Bu Tho Township,
=09 Papun District

We arrived more than 2 weeks ago.  We spent 5 days on the way.
 We came because SLORC was going to attack Day Pu Noh and our
village is along their way, so we didn't dare stay in the village
anymore and we fled.  Day Pu Noh is 2 hours walk from Toh Nya
Der, just the other side of the mountain.  [Day Pu Noh is about
20 km. north of Papun, and Toh Nya Der is just east of Day Pu
Noh.  The SLORC troops have advanced through Toh Nya Der area
and are now attacking Day Pu Noh from the east.  This is the beginning
of an offensive on the traditionally strong KNU area of B'Nay
Per Ko and Ler Mu Plaw, north of Day Pu Noh along the Bway Loh
Kloh (Yunzalin) River.]  SLORC came to our village just 2 weeks
before we left.  Fighting occurred very close to our village at
that time.  Now they're organizing so many troops in Papun, 5
hours walk away.  They say they're going to take the strong Karen
position at Day Pu Noh, and it's very close to us so we don't
dare stay.  All the high points behind our village [to the east]
like Thu Kyo and Muh K'naw Lay are already occupied by SLORC troops.
 When they start shelling, most of their shells will explode near
our village, some right in our village, so we can't dare stay
there anymore.

When the SLORC came to the villages around there they took everything,
chickens, pigs, they didn't even leave people their underwear,
they took it all.  The SLORC sent a letter that said all the villagers
have to stay in our villages, and if they find anyone hiding in
the forest they will regard those people as their enemies and
kill them all, even the children.  Two weeks ago SLORC arrested
two village tract leaders, Pa Maw Heh from Par Haik village tract,
and the Kaw Boke village tract head whose name I don't know.=20
They were arrested for working with KNU.  They killed the Kaw
Boke village tract head and they took Pa Maw Heh to Papun - we
don't know if they plan to kill him or not.  [A later report came
in that Pa Maw Heh has also been executed.]  We had to hide all
our rice and other things in the jungle, so we have to be afraid
of fire or elephants destroying them, and if SLORC finds it they
will destroy it.  I haven't seen Ko Per Baw yet and we didn't
get any word yet, but they will come.

When we came here we had to face problems avoiding Burmese troops,
travelling by night, and then when we crossed the car road we
had to do it at night [the road from Papun northwest to the Salween
River at Kyauk Nyat, where SLORC now has a heavy presence].  There
were about 50 houses in Toh Nya Der, but there are probably no
villagers left there anymore.  Those who remained have probably
scattered into the forest by now.  Most of them want to come here.
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=09=09=09=09 #P13.

NAME:    "Naw Lah K'Paw"   SEX: F   AGE: 17      Karen Christian farmer
FAMILY:  Single                                  INTERVIEWED:  26/6/95
ADDRESS: Baw Kaw Der village, Bu Tho Township, Papun District

My parents are still alive.  They've gone to look for food.  I
have 3 brothers and sisters.  We got here 1 week ago - no, 2 weeks.
 We ran from the Burmese.  We saw the Ko Per Baw.  They came with
the Burmese.  The Burmese came to my village and took all our
things, and we ran and came over here.  They came recently, and
=0C
took everything, then after they took everything they left.  They
are from 341 Battalion [based in Papun].  There were 100, 200,
or 300 of them.  They ordered people to come down out of their
houses.  I was under our house.  They pointed their guns at me,
and they said nothing at all.  They took our torchlight, plates,
and cooking pots.  They took 3 boxes from our hiding place, and
they took the 2 pairs of earrings, 2 rings and the clothes that
were in the boxes [this would be their best handwoven clothes
and their gold jewellery, which represents their entire material
wealth - Karen villagers keep money in the form of gold jewellery,
colonial-era silver rupee coins, etc., not cash].  They took all
our rice that they could, and the rest they threw and scattered
on the ground.  There were many porters with the soldiers, there
were Karen and also Burmese porters.  They were carrying plates,
cooking pots and things.  The Burmese arrested one man in our
village, tied him up and took him along as their guide until they
reached Papun, then they released him there.  His name is Po Kyaw,
he is 30 or 40, an ordinary villager.  On their way, whenever
the Burmese saw a rice barn they ripped the roof off.  They always
do this.  [Villagers hide unmilled rice in rice barns in the forest
to save it from SLORC.  Once the roof is ripped off, the rice
will be destroyed by rain or animals.]

After they left we didn't have any blankets or things any more.
 We just stayed in the village like that for 3 days.  We still
had paddy to eat [unmilled rice from their rice barn in the forest].
 But we were afraid and we had nothing left with us, we had no
cooking pots to cook, so we left.  From Baw Kaw Der to here, we
slept 3 nights along the way.  There was only one problem, when
we had to cross the car road.  When we got here, Uncle over there
gave us 3 plates, and someone gave us a pot.  [Question: So can
you go back to your village now?  She answered:]  Can we go back?
 Have all the Burmese left?
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=09=09=09=09    #P14.

NAME:    "Pa Bleh"     SEX: M    AGE: 35           Karen Christian farmer
FAMILY:  Married, 5 children aged 1 to 10 years    INTERVIEWED: 26/6/95
ADDRESS: Bwa Der village, Bu Tho Township, Papun District

I have been here over 3 weeks already.  I am with my children.
 My wife is in hospital in Chiang Mai.  She was wounded by a helicopter.
 I wasn't there when it happened.  You can ask her father.  [After
their group had crossed the Salween River into Thailand, they
were attacked by a Thai Army helicopter gunship and his wife was
shot and badly wounded in the hip.  Other refugees and villagers
managed to get her to Chiang Mai for treatment.  The Thais claimed
they were attacking DKBA troops in retaliation for border incursions
into Thailand (this may have been one of the fake attacks when
they claimed to be attacking DKBA bases in Burma).  See her father
"Puh Klo Htoo"'s testimony in this report.]  We left our village
because of the DKBA.  They came and gave us trouble, and ordered
us to go stay at Khaw Taw Pu.  People didn't know what to do.
 We came here.
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=09=09=09      #P15.

NAME:    "Puh Klo Htoo"   SEX: M   AGE: 60        Karen Christian farmer
FAMILY:  Widower for almost 20 years, 4 children and many grandchildren
ADDRESS: Bwa Der village, Bu Tho Township, Papun District=20
=09=09=09=09=09=09  INTERVIEWED: 25/6/95

I arrived here 3 or 4 weeks ago.  I don't dare live in my village
anymore because I'm afraid of the Ko Per Baw.  They said that
they will destroy us completely because we are Christian.  They
said they will wipe us out.  They came to the village often.=20
Whenever they came they ordered us to go to Khaw Taw, ordered
=0C
us to give them guns, and they asked for food, rice, whatever
they wanted.  We had to go as porters for SLORC as well as the
Ko Per Baw.  They didn't fix the number of people.  Whenever they
asked, they just asked for however many porters they wanted, and
we had to give it to them.  Men only had to go, but they didn't
take me.  They had to go for 2 or 3 days, sometimes more than
that.  For the time being we can't go back to stay in our village,
because the DKBA has not finished their task yet.  They are going
to continue their program in the future [of wiping out the Christians].

We left before they burned the village.  I came with my daughter's
family.  We were on the Thai side [of the Salween River], and
it was evening time.  We were resting in a village, preparing
to move.  The helicopters came - I saw 2 helicopters.  They were
very low.  The helicopters saw us.  There were six families in
our group.  It saw us.  I was right there.  They shot, and my
daughter was wounded in her hip, like this [he demonstrated the
bullet entering the back of her hip and exiting from the front
beside the groin area].  She was seriously wounded.  I asked people
to send her from one place to another, step by step, until she
got to the hospital.  I asked P--- to take care of her on the
way to the hospital.  That was 1 month ago now, and we have no
news of her.  Her name is Naw XXXX.  She is 30 years old.=20
You already spoke to her husband.  Please send us news of her
if you can find out.  [A medical aid organization has now looked
into her case and notified the family, but KHRG has not yet heard
the result.  Naw XXXX was shot by a Thai Army helicopter gunship
in an abandoned Karen village on the east bank of the Salween
River south of the Thai trading village of Mae Sam Lap.  During
that time period, the Thai Army claimed that it was repelling
all SLORC and DKBA forces who crossed the border and attacking
DKBA bases on the Burma side of the river in that area with helicopter
gunships, though it appears that these attacks were probably faked
to appease Thai public opinion over SLORC and DKBA's incursions
into Thailand.  This very attack may have been one of those reported
in the Thai media as a great blow against the DKBA.  "Puh Klo
Htoo" says others in the group of refugees told him a group of
either DKBA or KNLA soldiers had crossed the river to Thailand
shortly before the attack, although he never saw them.  He is
adamant that the helicopter was close enough to see that it was
firing on villagers.]
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=09=09=09=09 #P16.

NAME:    "Saw Po Thu"   SEX: M    AGE: 35       Karen Christian farmer
FAMILY:  Married, 4 children aged 3, 5, 7, & 9  INTERVIEWED:  26/6/95
ADDRESS: Bwa Der village, Bu Tho Township, Papun District

I came with my whole family.  We have been here for 32 days.=20
I came to stay here because over there we have to face so many
difficulties.  One of our problems is that the Ko Per Baw came
and pushed us to go down to Khaw Taw.  Another problem is food
and clothing, because all our belongings were burned along with
our houses.  Also, several times each month SLORC ordered 20 or
30 people to go work for them, sometimes for 3 days, sometimes
for a week.  We had to send the people, or they came by themselves
and took them.  For the Ko Per Baw we had to provide rice, but
they didn't take porters.

Nobody in our village went to Khaw Taw, but in villages near us
some people went.  The Ko Per Baw took them away, they didn't
go of their own will.  Some went by themselves because of the
order, but some were taken along by the Ko Per Baw.  The Ko Per
Baw came to the village very often.  Every time they came the
village had to give them 1 basket [about 33 kg.] of rice.  The
first time, they came together with SLORC and didn't give any
trouble to the villagers, just ordered us to go down there.  But
=0C
then the time after that we didn't see SLORC with them.  There
were about 50 or 60 of them.  Before they came, we got their message
that they were coming and everyone must stay in the village and
wait for them.  The people did as they were told, stayed and waited.
 When they arrived they told the villagers to go down and stay
at that place [Khaw Taw].  The Burmese also told us to go there,
but they came to our village in a separate group.  These different
groups gave so many differing orders to us!  But all the groups
told us to go down and live there [in Khaw Taw].  They said all
the Buddhist villagers must go there, and if they don't they will
find their teacher [a Karen expression, meaning you'll meet someone
who will punish you].  They also ordered people to become vegetarians.
 One group came along with a Buddhist monk and slept one night
in our village, and that time they gave us a "final warning" order.
 They said, "All the people in your village must go down now.
 If you don't, this time you will really find your teacher.  All
the Buddhist villagers have to go, and if they don't then the
next time we will burn down all their houses."  We told them some
of us are Christian, and they said "If the Christians don't want
to go, okay, no problem.  But one day you too will surely find
your teacher."

The Ko Per Baw said we had to go right away, but then the Burmese
troops came in later and said "No, not right away, you can stay
here for now".  The officer said that, from #434 Battalion.  So
between the groups we didn't know what to do.  At the time, we
still had our belongings in our houses and some food to eat.=20
The Ko Per Baw came several times together with SLORC soldiers.
 Every time they were going to burn down the village but the SLORC
stopped them.  But then the Ko Per Baw came because we didn't
pay attention to the order they gave us, and they destroyed everything
so that we wouldn't be able to stay anymore and we'd have to go
to Khaw Taw.  That time there was also a SLORC group, but they
weren't together.  The Ko Per Baw shot into the air, and they
burned and destroyed our houses.  They burned the church and they
took the big bell away to Meh Kay Kyaw [a Buddhist pagoda to the
south overlooking the Salween River near Sleeping Dog Mountain].
 What could we do?  We just stayed and watched them do it.  In
Bwa Der they burned 5 houses - there are only 5 houses in the
old village, but around the village there are lots of places,
1 or 2 houses here, 1 or 2 houses there.  Most of the people are
Animists, not Christians.  I was staying in my father-in-law's
house, and it was burned down.  We didn't know what to do then,
so when they left our village we stayed a few days in a house
that wasn't burned, then we left and came here.  When we came
over here some families had only one cooking pot, some had two.
 So when one family cooked, the next family had to wait.  We had
no spare clothing, only the clothes on our bodies.  Now there
are 24 [actually 26] families here from Bwa Der.
___________________________________________________________________________=
___
=09=09=09       #P17.

NAME:    "Naw Sah Lwe"   SEX: F   AGE: over 50      Karen Christian farmer
FAMILY:  Married, 6 children aged 13-30  , many grandchildren       =20
ADDRESS: Bwa Der village, Bu Tho Township, Papun District =20
=09=09=09=09=09=09    INTERVIEWED: 26/6/95

Our whole family came here together, one month and 2 days ago.
 We came because of Ko Per Baw, they were going to move us.  They
already burned our houses and our paddy, so we had nothing and
we couldn't stay there anymore.  The Ko Per Baw soldiers came
and treated us wrongly because of the difference in our religion.
 They came often, and so did the SLORC.  Sometimes they came together.
 Whenever Ko Per Baw came they told us to go down to Khaw Taw,
but we didn't want to go.  If we go down there we'll have to worship
Lord Buddha.
=0C

My house was burned, and my paddy barns were also burned.  I lost
one big tin of rice [16 kg.], paddy, 3 pots, 3 blankets, sleeping
mats and other household things, a bible, a hymnbook, and everything
people need to live.  After that I couldn't stay in the village
anymore, I went to Noh Pu village beside the mountain and stayed
there.  Then the Ko Per Baw soldiers came to Noh Pu and told us
to go down to their place [Khaw Taw], and they came more than
once.  So we didn't dare stay there anymore, and some of our nationality
[meaning KNLA soldiers] came and took us along the way here.=20
Some of the Noh Pu villagers are still there, and they have to
work for SLORC.  There's no problem for us here, but there were
many problems in Bwa Der and Noh Pu.  Here the only problem is
diseases.  Dare we go back?  If the SLORC and DKBA over there
don't disappear, can we dare go back?  If the foreigners say we
have to go, we'll go back, but if they say we can stay here then
we'll stay here.  Even if the fighting stops I don't dare go back,
because the Ko Per Baw will still persecute the Baptists and other
Christians.
___________________________________________________________________________=
___
=09=09=09     #P18.

NAME:    "Puh Kaw Taw"   SEX: M   AGE: 63      Karen Christian farmer
FAMILY:  Married, 7 children aged 11-28        INTERVIEWED:  26/6/95
ADDRESS: Bwa Der village, Bu Tho Township, Papun District

We arrived here on the 12th [of June].  We had to face so many
problems, so we came over here.  It was the way the Ko Per Baw
treated us.  They said they were going to drive us all down to
Khaw Taw.  They said if we didn't go down to Khaw Taw, they would
hand over all the villagers to SLORC.  If they do that, the SLORC
will use us as they wish.  They can order you to work for them
for one month, or for one year.  They will treat us as slaves.

I've had to go as a porter for SLORC two times this year.  They
sent a letter, and I had to go.  They ordered 40 people from Toh
Nyo, Paw Hta and Bwa Der together.  One person from each house.
 My children were not around, so I had to go.  The first time
was about 2 months ago.  They made me carry about 20 viss [32
kg.] for one day.  I was carrying sarongs, shirts and other things
they had taken from villagers, to Ho Kho.  They took 12 of us
from Bwa Der that time, and there were also people from other
villages.  The second time I had to be a porter from Paw Hta to
Thaw Let Hta [opposite the Thai trading village of Mae Sam Lap],
about a month ago.  We had to carry supplies for SLORC for 2 days.
 If a person couldn't carry his burden and fell down, they ran
to him and kicked him immediately.  I saw.  The porters were middle
aged, getting old already.  Most were from Paw Hta.  We ate with
the soldiers, but they only gave us prawn paste.

When the Ko Per Baw burned the village [on May 5], my house was
already destroyed so they couldn't burn it.  The first time the
Ko Per Baw came they destroyed it.  They even ate my birds, my
chickens.  Some Karen soldiers used to stay with me, and some
of my children and nephews were Karen soldiers.  So first the
Ko Per Baw fired a shell at my house [most likely an M79 grenade],
then they shot their guns, rushed into my house and started tearing
it down.  They ripped off the whole roof of my house.  When they
started shooting, I ran into the jungle.  There was no one fighting
them, they were just shooting into the village.  I went and stayed
with my relatives in another part of the village for 2 months.
 Then I came here with them.  26 families came.  We organized
our things by ourselves, but we got help to come here from the
KNU [an escort of soldiers part way].  We heard that Ko Per Baw
would try to stop us.  On the way they came close to us, but we
managed to avoid them and arrived here.  If possible we want to
go back, because it's our home and we want to make our living
=0C
there.  But if there's no opportunity to go back, we'll have to
stay here.  There are other families from Bwa Der and other villages
who I think want to come here, but they can't get across the road
because SLORC is on the road.
___________________________________________________________________________=
___
=09=09=09      #P19.

NAME:    "Saw Kaw Lah"   SEX: M   AGE: 30       Karen Christian farmer
FAMILY:  Married, 1 child aged 11 months        INTERVIEWED: 26/6/95
ADDRESS: Bwa Der village, Bu Tho Township, Papun District=20

I have been here since May 30th.  When we first heard news about
what was happening [at Thu Mwe Hta in December 1994, when the
DKBA began to form - Bwa Der is not so far from Thu Mwe Hta] we
dared not stay in our village.  At that time my wife was staying
at her village, Maw Kee.  The other villagers and I went and stayed
in the forest near our village.  The Ko Per Baw shot at 2 men,
one escaped and one died.  His name was Pa Lweh Mu, he was my
cousin, a Karen soldier.  He was 17, and both his parents are
dead.  They shot him on December 29th.  They threw his body into
the river and said "Now, Christians, do you understand?"  We ran
and tried to hide in the jungle.  Later we heard news that they
were killing the Christians [though there was never any extensive
or systematic killing of Christians].  When we heard this news
we realized that it was not good news for us, and that the situation
would get worse and worse.

Another time they came and burned the village [on May 5].  That
time I was hiding outside the village.  There were only women
and children still in the village.  The Ko Per Baw came and fired
their guns but they didn't hit anybody, then they burned the houses.
 I heard from others that my house was destroyed, but I never
went back to see it myself.  I stayed hiding in the forest between
my village and the Salween River for nearly the whole summer,
borrowing food from others or getting some from the village, trying
to find out the news about what would happen next in my village
and the area.  I thought maybe I could go back and plant a crop,
but I realized it was hopeless and I couldn't stay there anymore,
so I came here.  This problem is too much for Man, I can only
hope for the help of God to solve this problem.  But for now,
I don't dare go back.
___________________________________________________________________________=
___

  [END OF PART 2 - SEE SUBSEQUENT POSTING FOR 3RD AND FINAL PART]