AUNG SAN SUU KYI 0n Tourism

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                        AUNG SAN SUU KYI 0n Tourism

Thefollowing excerpts are from a meeting between Aung San Suu Kyi
andforeign journalists
in Rangoon on November 17, 1995. The conversation was taped and
transcribedfor Burma Debate.


PRESS ~ My question has to do with tourism and "Visit Myanmar Year - 1996."
The government has been making a great deal of effort to attract tourists
andforeigll investment. In fact, foreign investment and tourism are related
industries... in the country right now. The people I've been speaking to in
the north say that it's a kind of double edge sword because, of course,
they're aware that the money, the foreign currency, is strengthening the
government but they appreciate that they're actually ~ettin~ the "trickle
down" effect.

AUNG SAN SUU KYI ~ There is another aspect to that as well. It is forced
labor that has been imposed on the people in order to make the place as it
were, 'respectable," in quotes, for the tourists. And that is a matter of
great concern, because people are made to build roads, build bridges and,
in many towns, people are made to replace their wooden or bamboo fences
with brick walls. This is in order to impress tourists. And there are some
places where they are even made to replace the wooden fronts of their
houses with brick facades if they could not afford to rebuild the whole
house in brick. This means a lot of hardship for the people, and I doubt
that any of those people who have to contribute labor or who have to spend
a lot of money, between their walls and houses, really get anything back
from the tourist industry.

PRESS ~ SO the NLD INational League for Democracy] basically would say to
tourists, "Stay away?"

ASSK ~ Well, we think it is too early for either tourists or investment or
aid to come pouring into Burma. We would like to see that these things are
conditional on genuine progress towards democratization.

PRESS ~ What are the kinds of conditions the government would have
tofulfill before this international boycott of the country can be lifted
and aid and business and tourism should pour in?

ASSK ~ Well, they should show respect for the [United Nations] General
Assembly resolution. The General Assembly resolution of 1994 spells out
what is necessary before it can be seen that Burma is really on the road to
democratization. So, I think the clauses of that resolution should be
implemented before we can take it that the government is really on the road
to democratization.

PRESS ~ But I think that some tourists are coming, and I saw in Loikaw just
exactly [the thingsl you have explained. .. but you have to know, when I'm
a visitor here I don't see as much as I expected. Aren't you concerned that
the people who are coming here get the wrong idea and say well, the press
is wrong or something like that?

ASSK ~ Well, if they get the wrong idea, then, somebody should put them
right because tourists don't get anywhere... for example, where have you
been in Rangoon?

PRESS . The subllrbs, outside. . .

ASSK ~ And where else?

PRESS ~ Just across the river. I rode down to the townships where people
were displaced a few years ago...

ASSK ~ Yes, but a lot of people don't go there. When tourists come here
they go to the Shwedagon Pagoda... they go to the pagoda at Pegu. Mind you,
if you go to Pegu by car you will see the roads are very bad. But [the
tourists] live in hotels, they go around in airconditioned taxis, they
don't see anything of what is going on in the country. They know nothing of
the situation of people in the rural areas, [who] are the backbone of the
country. Eighty percent of our people live in the countryside. And it's
whether or not they are well off which decides whether the country is
developing or not. We, the NLD, make a point of saying that real
development in a country must be measured by the standards of health and
education; and I think you can find data, independent data which has
nothing to do with us; United Nations data, which will show that government
spending on health and education has not gone up. As I understand it, in
the 1993 UN Human Development Report, the government was spending 150 times
on defense what it was spending on health and education. And in the 1994
report it had gone up 222 times. So, we cannot see that there is
development. Apart from that, UNICEF data shows that the dropout rate at
the primary school level is rising in the country, so that certainly does
not show development, espe-
cially as UNICEF thinks... UNICEF comes to the conclusion that the reason
why children are dropping out of school is because the families are getting
poorer and this is the great majority of our people.

PRESS DO y(1U see c~nytIIillg |in| alternative tOMriSm,' that is, smcZII
groups who clre blfornled. . . ?

ASSK ~ Well, I think that visitors to the country can be useful, depending
on what they do, or how they go about it. But I think also, tourists have
to be careful not to deceive themselves; if they want to see the country,
they can find all sorts of excuses for doing so. But what they have to
understand is how far their visits really go to help the people. You go a
long way towards deceiving yourself. You can talk about 'trickle down'
effect, but sometimes the trickle down effect is exactly that, a mere
trickle, which dissipates before it gets to where it's required.

PRESS 7 here hclve been the reports in the Western press abollt the issue
offorced labor. . . do you have thefeeliIlg that it's gotten worse. . .
since the beginning of the year?

ASSK s Well, certainly, a lot of forced labor is in the interest of
attracting tourists. It's... one could say, it's this "Visit Myanmar Year"
which is responsible for a lot of forced labor because it's for roads and
bridges, as I said earlier, for building up the facades that will look
impressive to tourists.

PRE.SS ~ Has the situation worsened sblce the beginning of the year?

ASSK s It's going on, I mean, the same projects are going on. So there
certainly has been no let-up on preparations for welcoming, in quotes, "the
tourists."

PRESS When YOU sayforced labor, just to clarify,

you mean suggesting that ~people1 dotlclte their time for. . . ?

ASSK Well, maybe it's not suggesting. Telling them to donate their time, if
they cannot give the time they have to donate money instead. Only last week
we were informed that in Hlaing Tharyar, which is one of the satellite
townships, they were being asked to labor for a new road or perhaps for
rebuilding an old road. And those families... those households which cannot
provide labor have to give 650 kyats each. That's a lot for people who
don't have money, you know, who barely have enough to live on.

PRESS =B0 I ve heard that the new railway line thats being built between
Nyaung-U and Myin-Gyan, OI1 the way to ~Vagan, that there's forced labor
being used on that railway, very speciJically as a tourist project. DO YOU
have any details on that?

ASSK ~ No, we've just heard what you have. I think the same conditions
apply there as anywhere else in Burma where there's forced labor. If you
can't supply labor you have to supply money instead. And lots of people
can't afford money. But then, sometimes people have their own work to do.
If they are farmers they have their own land to tend to, and in order that
they may tend to their land, they have to give money instead. And that of
course is very difficult. It means that sometimes they run into debt
because they've got to borrow the money to pay towards forced labor or
voluntary labor, or whatever they like to call it, in order that they might
be free to work their own land, because that's their livelihood.

PRE.SS If~ tourists do come, what would you tell them to c10? What would be
the picture of Burma you'd like them to see?

ASSK s I think we would be much more clear cut in our policies. If we think
there is reason for us to say to the tourist, "Please don't come," we shall
say so.

PRESS ~ But say they do come. What would you say if they just get to see
the Shwedagon, Pagan. . . they don't really understand what is going on...

ASSK ~ Well then, we'll have to ask somebody to bring out an alternative
guide to Burma. [Editor's note: See Media Resourccs, p. 34]

PRESS ~ Are you worried about the cultural eJfects tourism will have on soci=
ety?

ASSK ~ That is connected to the political and economic situation, which
will effect and influence the social attitudes of the people. I think if
you want a people to preserve their culture, you've got to make them feel
proud of themselves. You've got to make them feel that they can hold their
heads up in the world. If people do not have confidence in themselves, they
will lose their culture because they will think other people are better. If
they're poorer, if they have to depend on foreigners for a little trickle
of whatever is going in, then they will lose confidence with themselves. If
they lose confidence with themselves, that means they will no longer value
their own culture. The reason why a lot of young people are taking to
wearing foreign clothes is because they think that's trendy and they think
that shows that they're aMuent. It's a sign of a lack of confidence in
themselves and in their own country and in their own culture. You cannot
preserve a culture by fiat. The people have to feel that their culture is
valuable, that it's worth preserving. If they do not feel it's worth
preserving, no amount of laws is going to make them preserve it. It will
get eroded away in no time at all.

PRESS ~ 15 there no positive side to tourism?

ASSK ~ Of course there is a positive side to everything, provided it's
handled in the right way. Tourists can open up the world to the people of
Burma just as the people of Burma can open up the eyes of tourists to the
situation in their own country if they're interested in
looking. But if the people of Burma simply come to see tourists as a source
of ready money... then I do not know how much the tourist will be able to
help the Burmese people, apart from scattering a few dollars around.

PRESS . Some things about Mandalay. . . I went on the boat to Mingun as a
tourist and saw that there lare plots of land cleared] on the bank. . .
another form of relocation. What are they going to do there? Is it another
hotel site? It looks like the worst of both systems, of a nationalized
system and a free economy....

ASSK ~ Well, one hopes there is a method to the madness. They seem to be
clearing land right, left and center and I think in some cases they want to
put up hotels, in other areas they seem to want to turn farming land into
settlements, new settlements, which means they bring out people from the
cities and settle them on those lands. Whereas in those city areas that are
cleared, they put up hotels and department stores. It all seems to come
back to hotels in the end.

PRESS ~ But about Mandalay specifically, do you have any information...
about the Irrawaddy river bank?

ASSK i Yes, I think the Irrawaddy river bank has been cleared away for the
sake of the tourist so it all looks very nice and clean.

PRESS ~ Back toforced labor, I just wanted to get your response to a
comment I gotfrom the government, which said that they
weren'tforcingpeople, thatforeigners didn't understand this labor thing
because it was the Buddhist way, that people wanted to work because they
were gaining merit.

ASSK i I've never heard that it was the Buddhist way that if [people] were
not prepared to work, they had to give money instead. That does not seem a
very Buddhist way to me.

PRESS . But say they do come. What would you say if they just get to see
the Shwedagon, Pagan. . . they don't really understand what is going on. ..

ASSK ~ Well then, we'll have to ask somebody to bring out an alternative
guide to Burma. |Editor's note: See Media Resources, p. 34]

PRESS ~ Are you worried about the cultural effects tourism will have on soci=
ety?

ASSK ~ That is connected to the political and economic situation, which
will effect and influence the social attitudes of the people. I think if
you want a people to preserve their culture, you've got to make them feel
proud of themselves. You've got to make them feel that they can hold their
heads up in the world. If people do not have confidence in themselves, they
will lose their culture because they will think other people are better. If
they're poorer, if they have to depend on foreigners for a little trickle
of whatever is going in, then they will lose confidence with themselves. If
they lose confidence with themselves, that means they will no longer value
their own culture. The reason why a lot of young people are taking to
wearing foreign clothes is because they think that's trendy and they think
that shows that they're affluent. It's a sign of a lack of confidence in
themselves and in their own country and in their own culture. You cannot
preserve a culture by fiat. The people have to feel that their culture is
valuable, that it's worth preserving. If they do not feel it's worth
preserving, no amount of laws is going to make them preserve it. It will
get eroded away in no time at all.

PRESS * Is there no positive side to tourism?

ASSK * Of course there is a positive side to everything, provided it's
handled in the right way. Tourists can open up the world to the people of
Burma just as the people of Burma can open up the eyes of tourists to the
situation in their own country if they're interested in


looking. But if the people of Burma simply come to see tourists as a source
of ready money... then I do not know how much the tourist will be able to
help the Burmese people, apart from scattering a few dollars around.

PR~SS . Some things about Mandalay. . . I went on the boat to Mingun as a
tourist and saw that there lare plots of land cleared] on the bank. . .
anotherform of relocation. What are they going to do there? 7s it another
hotel site? It looks like the worst of both systems, of a nationalized
system and a free economy....

ASSK ~ Well, one hopes there is a method to the madness. They seem to be
clearing land right, left and center and I think in some cases they want to
put up hotels, in other areas they seem to want to turn farming land into
settlements, new settlements, which means they bring out people from the
cities and settle them on those lands. Whereas in those city areas that are
cleared, they put up hotels and department stores. It all seems to come
back to hotels in the end.

PRESS ~ But about Mandalay specifically, do you have any information...
about the Irrawaddy river bank?

ASSK ~ Yes, I think the Irrawaddy river bank has been cleared away for the
sake of the tourist so it all looks very nice and clean.

PRESS * Back to forced labor, I just wanted to get your response to a
comment Igotfrom thegovernment, which said that they weren'tforcingpeople,
thatforeigners didn't understand this labor thing because it was the
Buddhist way, thatpeople wanted to work because they were gaining merit.

ASSK ~ I've never heard that it was the Buddhist way that if [people] were
not prepared to work, they had to give money instead. That does not seem a
very Buddhist way to me.