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KHRG #97-07 Part 5 of 6 (Offensives



Subject: KHRG #97-07 Part 5 of 6 (Offensives)

		    REFUGEES FROM THE SLORC OCCUPATION

	  An Independent Report by the Karen Human Rights Group
		    May 25, 1997     /     KHRG #97-07
 
*** PART 5 OF 6 - SEE OTHER POSTINGS FOR OTHER PARTS OF THIS REPORT ***

[Some details omitted or replaced by 'XXXX' for Internet distribution.]

_____________________________________________________________________________
				   #D22.
NAME:    "Saw Po Htoo"     SEX: M    AGE: 67   Karen Christian church elder
FAMILY:  Widower, 2 children
ADDRESS: Kyone Yaw village, Kya In township            INTERVIEWED: 2/4/97

Q:  When did you arrive here?
A:  I arrived 5 days ago.
Q:  Why did you leave your village?
A:  We left because we could not live and we could not eat.  Because our 
rice was all taken and we had to go and ask for our rice back, weighed out 
on a scale little by little.  We had to climb high mountains with heavy
loads.  
So we couldn't stay, we didn't dare stay anymore and we left.
Q:  Who collected your rice?
A:  The Burmese soldiers.  They came one month and 6 days ago.  They 
made us collect all of our rice.  They caught the chickens and the pigs to
eat 
and they destroyed our belongings and animals.  They surrounded our 
village, gathered us together in one place, and then they took all of our 
animals to eat and destroy.  They hurt us also - even the Pastor couldn't
stay 
at home, he had to run out and hide himself in the forest.  They used us to 
do hard work and carry heavy loads until we couldn't do it any more, so we 
left. 

They hurt some people.  I saw it.  They beat us on our faces, punched us 
and made us do hard work like cattle or buffalos.  Whatever they ordered 
we had to do.  We had to clear a yard for them, dig holes, and climb the 
mountain to look for Karen soldiers.  If we couldn't find any, they told us 
that we were telling them lies and hurt us.  They didn't do anything to the 
women, but they were very dangerous for the men.  I don't know what they 
would have done to the women if there were no men in the village. 



Q:  How many people were beaten?
A:  A lot of people who were caught.  They caught me and bound me for a 
while, and while I was there I saw what they did so I felt afraid and escaped

later before they beat me.  They tied our necks with rope, so I didn't dare 
to stay.  I didn't see everybody, but with my own eyes I saw them beat 20 
people.  With their feet they kicked, with their hands they beat people's 
faces and with their guns they beat us.  They also beat us with bamboo and 
wood, and they took the stairs from our houses and beat us with them.  
[Karen houses are built above-ground with a ladder-like stairway of wood 
or bamboo up to them.]  If we couldn't find Karen soldiers they hurt us.  If 
we couldn't climb high mountains with heavy loads they hurt us.  They also 
killed some people.  Two people were killed. I didn't see it with my own 
eyes, but the escaped porter told me that they were killed on the mountain 
among the rocks.  I don't know their names.  They were villagers in Kya In 
township.  They felt so tired until they couldn't climb the mountain with 
their heavy loads any more.  They fell down, so the Burmese soldiers 
kicked them and made them stand up again.  Eventually they couldn't stand 
up again, so the Burmese soldiers killed them in the end.  They shot them 
dead and continued their journey. That happened 3 days after the Burmese 
arrived at my village.

Q:  Is that the first time SLORC has arrived in your village?
A:  The very first time for my village.  They were from #44 Division.  Our 
village covers a wide area but there were about 40 houses in it.  They 
ordered us to build a place [camp] for them, build shelters and dig toilets 
for them, dig holes for cover, clear a yard, and make 4 or 5 concentric rings

of fences surrounding  their place. We had to go and dig every day, from 
when they first came until now.  It's still not finished.  It's a very wide 
place.  They kept us all together a little apart from their place.  We had to

work every day for them, and we had to bring our own rice to eat for many 
days because they never gave us any food, and they never care about our 
hunger.  There's no time left for us to do our own work.  They caught every 
man to do the work.  They didn't catch women because there were still many 
men in the village, but I can't say what will happen when all the men escape 
from the place.

We had to work early in the morning until late in the evening with no rest.  
When we were too slow they didn't beat us, but they shouted at us to hurry 
up.  At night some people could sleep and others had to work.  They called 
us by turns.  The people on night duty had to live in their camp until we 
rotated.  I had to work in the night for 3 nights.  I had to stay until 
someone came to replace me.  We had to work for them every night and day.  It

was hard work.  Now my cart is left there with the Army.  I'll never go back 
to get my cart and belongings any more.  There are about 500 soldiers there 
now, I guess.

Q:  How did they collect your rice for the first time?
A:  They collected all of our paddy on the first day they arrived.  They 
ordered us to bring our paddy to them and to build a building for our own 
paddy.  They ordered us to bring all of our paddy to their camp together 
because they said they didn't want us to feed Karen soldiers.  They said if 
we keep our paddy in our own homes, the Karen soldiers will come and eat 
and it would give strength to Karen soldiers.  So we have to beg our rice 
back from them, weighed by scale little by little.  We must buy it back from 
them, our own paddy.  They would never give it back to us for free.  We 
had to pay 10 Kyats for 8 milktins of paddy, or 160 Kyats for 2 big tins.  
They keep it in their camp, and they only give you 1 big tin [about 15 kg.] 
each time. When it is gone we must go to them again.

They wrote down the villagers' names and also the names of the people who 
brought their paddy to them.  They went around finding out how many 
people are in each family and writing it down.  Many villagers ran away and 
hid in the forest, but the soldiers tried to look for them and catch them.  
Some people escaped, but only men.  They left their children and wives, 
ran to the forest with their rice and hid there, and they felt great trouble.
 
[The men flee to avoid torture and forced labour, while the women and 
children hope to be treated better and stay behind to try to protect their 
home, land and belongings.]  

Some families fled to other places, and some came here.  Some families 
here are from my village, and some are from Lay Wah Ploh - it is very close 
to my village.  We didn't come the same way because we didn't dare to wait 
for each other. We feared that the soldiers would see us.  They would catch 
us if they saw us.
 
Q:  Why did you choose this place to come and stay?
A:  Because we knew this place and thought we could get food here.  We 
walked one day to get here.  We travelled at night, and we ran quickly when 
we crossed the [Thanbyuzayat-Three Pagodas Pass] road.  We worried 
that if we went to other places we would have no food to eat.  XXXX.  We 
heard that in this place our white younger brothers and sisters take care of 
the people, so we came [in Karen legend, the caucasian is the younger 
sibling of the Karen people].  If they didn't take care of us, we would die. 

So I came to cry unto them for help.  Please have mercy upon us. 

Q:  Now that you are here do you want to go back again?
A:  We think we will stay here and not go back any more.  If we can't stay 
here we will continue our travels but never go back.  Everybody is afraid in 
our village.

Q:  What do you hope for the future?
A:  We hope to stay here.
_____________________________________________________________________________
				   #D23.
NAME:    "Saw Nee Taw Thaw"   SEX: M     AGE: 18     Karen Christian farmer
FAMILY:  Single
ADDRESS: Kyone Yaw village, southern Dooplaya District   INTERVIEWED: 2/4/97

Q:  When did you leave your village?
A:  One week ago.  I'm from Kyone Yaw.  I came here because I was 
afraid of the SLORC.  They captured me as a porter and I had to carry 
things for them and climb the mountains.  When I couldn't carry things for 
them they beat me, so when we reached the mountain I ran away.

Q:  Did they beat you hard?
A:  Yes, they beat me very hard.  I was in pain.  They beat me with their 
hands while they pointed their guns at me.  I just had to bear that, so later
I 
ran away.  When I was with them I didn't see anyone killed by them, but I 
saw them beat other people very hard with a stick.  After beating them, they 
ordered the people to carry.  We had to carry very far and climb the 
mountains, and if we couldn't climb we were beaten by the soldiers.  They 
wouldn't put any medicine on my wound, or on the wounds of other 
porters.  They would kill us if we couldn't carry their ammunition and food. 

There were about 30 porters and 100 soldiers.  They were from #44 [Light 
Infantry] Division.

Q:  Did they see you when you were escaping?
A:  Yes, they saw me along the path and they shot at me 2 or 3 times.  I 
didn't go home, I ran straightaway to here.  It took me 4 days.

Q:  What do you think about the future?  Will you stay here or go back?
A:  I'll stay here.  I don't want to go back.  If the situation is good I'll 
go back, but if the enemy doesn't leave I won't go back to the village.

Q:  Where are your parents?
A:  In Kyone Yaw.  My mother is old.  I think they can't leave.  [Note: his 
parents have no way of knowing where he is, or even whether he is still 
alive.]
_____________________________________________________________________________
				   #D24.
NAME:    "Moo Nay"        SEX: M      AGE: 40      Karen Christian farmer
FAMILY:  Married, 7 children
ADDRESS: Lay Wah Ploh village, Kya In township     INTERVIEWED: 2/4/97

Q:  When did you arrive here?
A:  3 days ago.  The Burmese soldiers forced us to do hard work for them 
and hurt us.  We were afraid of them so we ran away.

Q:  When did the Burmese soldiers arrive at your village?
A:  One month and six days ago.  They came around our village and took 
my rice and animals to eat.  After that they called us together and forced us

to work hard for them, doing things like fencing the place where they will 
settle down, digging holes for them to protect themselves, and clearing all 
the bushes from their place.  We also had to cut a lot of bamboo and carry it

to them.  It wasn't in my village - we had to go and do all these things in 
Kyone Yaw every day.  Other villagers also.  Every village must do it.  I had

to work in the hot sun all day for them carrying heavy things.  It was hard 
work, but they allowed no period to rest.  They didn't beat me, but they 
shouted at me.  I worked there for 3 days.  They gathered us together, 
wrote down our names, and then 20 people had to go and work for them 
each day, for 3 days at a time.

Lay Wah Ploh village has 53 houses.  They divided our 20 people into two 
groups.  One group had to cut and carry the bamboo and the other group 
had to work in their camp digging the holes, cleaning the camp, etc.  They 
didn't call porters, but they ordered us to bring our carts to them and they 
used our carts as well as our bullocks.

Q:  Did they hurt any people in your village?
A:  Yes - they hurt this man here [see following interview].  He had to 
guard the carts.  They didn't tie him but they beat him.

Q:  Did they also collect the villagers' rice?
A:  For now they didn't collect our paddy, but they forced us to build a 
building to hold our paddy in our headman's garden.  They ordered that one 
week ago.  As for me, I didn't do that but ran away to escape. 



Q:   Did your family come together with you?
A:  Yes, we went out together at night time.  All night and all the next day 
we were walking from our place to here.  When we were walking we hoped 
to get to a safe place.  We thought that this place would be a safe place for

us, so we came here. 

Q:  What do you hope for the future of you and your family?
A:  If we can stay here we will stay.  If we can't stay here we will go 
forward, but we will never go back to our village.  I'm not sure if this
place 
is safe, I don't know, but if we have to move again we will.  That is my 
decision.
_____________________________________________________________________________
				   #D25.
NAME:    "Saw Kenyaw"       SEX: M     AGE: 56     Karen Christian farmer
FAMILY:  Married, 5 children
ADDRESS: Lay Wah Ploh village, Kya In township     INTERVIEWED: 2/4/97

I arrived here 3 days ago, with my family.  There were a few families still 
in the village, but most have left the village.  They left after the SLORC 
arrived.  The soldiers captured me, I was the first one captured.  Then we 
had to stay in Lay Wah Ploh village for 3 days, with one cart.  After that 
they called me to Kyone Yaw village.  They were joking with me.  They 
asked me, "Are you a Ringworm?  You are a big Ringworm.  You are the 
Great Eagle of the Ringworms!" ["Ringworm" (nga pway)  is a derogatory 
SLORC name for Karen soldiers.]  I told them, "Go ahead and cut my 
throat."  So they said, "We will kill you within the next 3 hours."  After 3 
hours he came and said he was just joking, he wouldn't kill me.  He said, 
"The ringworm, when they see us they just smile and we don't realise, and 
then they kill us.  The one who smiles like you is the one who can kill us." 

["Saw Kenyaw" smiles and jokes a lot.]

Then he didn't tie me up, but he kept me held in a house with 5 other 
captives.  All 5 of us had been captured at the same time.  There was no 
floor, we had to stay on the ground.  One room was for the bullock-cart 
driver and the other room was for us.  [The bullock-cart driver was 
probably the cart owner being forced to do labour with his cart, while the 
other 5 were suspected 'ringworms'.]  They asked many questions but I 
don't remember all of it.  They kept saying and accusing that we were 
'ringworms'.  They tried to threaten us and claim that we are their enemies, 
which is not true.

Q:  Did they threaten you when they were asking the questions?
A:  Yes, one aimed his gun at me while the other questioned me.  They 
took a knife and shaved my scalp 3 times [shaving his hair off] and they 
sawed the knife back and forth across my throat.  They beat me three times 
on my head and three times on my leg.  When they shaved my head it bled.  
It was very painful, but I just had to bear it.

I don't know how many hours it was, but at 2 p.m. we had to go.  After 
beating me it was time to leave.  Then we had to take them to Meh T'Pret 
village to get their rations - rice, milk, and sugar.  We had to send them 
and carry it all with the bullock cart.  It took 8 days to go there. 

Q:  Why did you flee your village?
A:  I left because I was afraid that they would catch me and force me to 
work for them again.  I left separately from the other villagers, but we met 
on the way.
_____________________________________________________________________________
				   #D26.
NAME:    "Saw Tamla Htoo"  SEX: M    AGE: 60    Karen Christian hill farmer
FAMILY:  Married, 7 children
ADDRESS: Meh T'Li village, southern Dooplaya District   INTERVIEWED: 2/4/97

I've been here for 3 weeks now.  The reason that I left my village is because

everything was all mixed up.  We were living in a little group here and 
another group there and our houses were in their path. The SLORC Army 
came and the Karen Army came and passed through our village. When they 
crossed paths there was fighting, and we feared the crossfire would hit us so

we had to flee our village.  Before there was no fighting, only starting last

year and this year the fighting came.  There was fighting last month in 
March, and there was also fighting in December and January in our village.  
Meh T'Li is about 6 miles from Kyun Chaung - it is 2 hours' walk.

Our village was KNU area because there was a gate there.  SLORC often 
came to the village even when the KNU stayed there.  When the SLORC 
came last month they occupied the village, but when they were leaving the 
Karen soldiers came back, and when the Karen soldiers attacked with great 
force SLORC ran away.  The villagers ran and dived and took shelter under 
the houses and trees and beside the stream.  The Burmese didn't like it 
when the villagers ran away far from them.  They said to us not to run 
away, just to stay close to them [as a shield, and not to go and tell the 
KNLA where the SLORC were positioned].

Now the SLORC is in the village.  When they came they called all the 
villagers who were staying at their hill farms, up the streams and hiding in 
the bush to come back and stay in the village.  They said to the villagers, 
"If you are good people come and live in the village and we won't do anything

to you", so the villagers came back and stayed in the village.  But the 
KNDO Karen told us not to go back.  Now that the SLORC has occupied 
the village, the KNDO ran away to other places.  When there was no more 
fighting, some villagers went back and stayed near the road.  The SLORC 
said that if any fighting starts they won't differentiate between the 
civilians and the soldiers, they will shoot everyone.

We were there and waited to see what the SLORC would do.  Then the 
SLORC started taking all the property and valuables from the villagers and 
burning their houses, and they ate all the chickens and pigs that they found.
 
Even the cattle, they shot them dead and ate them.  While I was there they 
took all the clothes and threw them around all over the place.  We didn't 
dare say anything to them.  From my house they took all the clothing that 
was good and all the rice that they found.  They took 8 big tins of rice 
[about 125 kg./250 lb.] and all the chickens.  My house was close to the 
road so they took everything.  They took everything from all the people 
whose houses were close to the road.

Q:  Did they take all the rice and put it into one place?
A:  No, they did not do that. 

Q:  How many houses are there in your village?
A:  There are three areas in the village.  Before we had to flee there were 
more than 100 houses in Meh T'Li village, but now some of the villagers 
hide up the streams and some stay in Lay Mine Hta, some stay in Htee Kay 
Kee and some of them stay in Meh T'Li Kee, they are all scattered.  Now 
there are only 20 families on the northern side and 6 families where I live. 

The others have all fled up the stream or down the stream, or they've run 
away to other villages like Lay Mine Hta, Meh T'Li Kee and Htee Kay Kee. 

Q:  Since the SLORC occupied the village have they asked the villagers to 
do anything?
A:  The SLORC orders them to dig trenches, build their barracks, fence 
their base, carry water and cut wood.  The SLORC asked them to build the 
post in Ah Grime - that is between Meh T'Li and Ah Ploh.  Three people 
from my village have to go, and others from Ah Ploh, Lay Po and Ler Say 
villages.  My son had to go for 3 days.  They had to take their own food.  
He had to take his own tools.  He had to fence the barracks.  There were 
about 20 or 30 villagers there.  There are more than 100 soldiers staying 
there.  The villagers had to cut and carry the materials to build the fence. 

For example, if they have 10 villagers from Ah Ploh then 5 of them have to 
cut three big bamboo each and the other 5 have to stay with the soldiers in 
their post [building the fence].  For three days 3 villagers had to go from 
our village, then another 3 villagers had to replace them for the next 3
days.  
All of those who went were men.

Q:  Did they demand any porters?
A:  Yes, they called for porters when they came, but the people who stay 
near the road they didn't even call, they just arrested them all and took 
them.  Then they beat and kicked them.

Q:  When the SLORC came to occupy the village did they come with 
porters from other places?
A:  Yes, the porters came with them, the porters ran to escape and came to 
eat rice at my house.

Q:  Since the SLORC occupation can the villagers move around freely?
A:  No, if they want to go to other villages they have to ask permission 
from the military authorities for a 3-day pass.  Their names are noted down, 
and after 3 days they have to report back personally.

Q:  Has there been any fighting since the SLORC occupation?
A:  Yes, there was fighting a week ago outside the village between the 
SLORC and the KNU.  Sometimes when the KNDO comes to the village 
and then SLORC comes too there is fighting, and none of them are 
wounded but the villagers die instead of them, so we left the village.  The 
KNDO said, "Because you are living with the enemy this means you 
sympathise with them, so when there is fighting we must shoot you also.  
We told you to get out of the village, so if something happens to you it is 
your own fault."  [Note: this goes against KNU policy.  It shows a bad 
KNDO officer, possibly made worse by the frustration the current SLORC 
offensive has created in much of the Karen military.] 

Q:  Did you have any difficulties coming here?
A:  It was very difficult to come here, we couldn't follow the main route.  
We came the Meh T'Li Kee way, and we had to climb many mountains.  
KNDO was along the main route and the SLORC were also going along 
that route, so we were afraid that if there was fighting between them we 
would be caught in the crossfire and wouldn't know which way to run.  So 
we took a roundabout route which was further but safer.  We came here 
because the SLORC are all over our area and we hadn't heard of the 
SLORC  attacking here, and because we heard that we could get food here 
through people's mercy.  I couldn't bring any blankets, just one cooking pot 
and only 3 of our children.  All our clothes and belongings were taken by 
the SLORC, we had nothing left there and no way to make our living, so 
whatever the problems will be here I left my village and came to stay here.  
If I am allowed to stay here I will stay, and if not I will go on to some 
other place, but if there is peace I would like to go back to my own village 
because I still have my land there.  SLORC can take our belongings and 
burn down our houses, but even they cannot take and carry our land away. 
_____________________________________________________________________________
				   #D27.
NAME:    "Naw May Oo Paw"    SEX: F     AGE: 21           Karen Buddhist
FAMILY:  Married, no children
ADDRESS: XXXX village, Kyaik Maraw township (near Mudon)  INTERVIEWED: 3/4/97

["Naw May Oo Paw" arrived at the Thai border on 2 April 1997.  Her 
village is not directly in the path of the offensive, but it has still been 
affected.]

I left XXXX village about 10 days ago.  The Burmese Army are collecting 
taxes in the village.  We are forced to pay, otherwise they threaten us.  
Even the village elders have to follow their orders.  SLORC collects rice and

other food from the villagers and we have to send 4 or 5 bullock carts 
loaded with food for them.  We also have to send porters through a lottery 
system.  Children also have to do that.  In my village, there are about 300 
to 400 houses.  Sometimes they demand 10 porters, sometimes 6.  Our village 
head doesn't want to send people, so he needs to pay bribes to the soldiers. 

He collected the money, 10,000 Kyats from each household [possibly for 
the whole year].  The Karen soldiers also demanded porters.  We have to 
send 2 villagers twice a week according to the draw system.  If someone 
doesn't want to go, he has to pay some money.  Occasionally, SLORC 
soldiers came and asked for paddy, 5 tins [about 15 kg. per tin]  from each 
house.
 
Q:  And during the current offensive against 6th Brigade [Dooplaya District]?
A:  Same as before.  The KNLA also collects soldiers, the same as before.  
It is the same as usual.  During the offensive, the Karen soldiers came and 
asked for food.  The headman didn't give it to them so they looted it from 
the villagers.

SLORC also came, took food and collected some porters.  When they 
entered the village, all the men had to flee and hide.  Then they arrested 
even the children.  Even if we had already given money for porter fees, they 
still came to collect people.
 
Both of them [SLORC and KNLA] always come to our village.  Sometimes 
they meet.  So the village elders have to go and request SLORC as well as 
KNLA not to fight in our village.  SLORC does not have complete control 
over our village.  They said, "If we see Karen soldiers in the village, we
are 
going to burn it down and make it like an ashtray".  The Karen soldiers are 
afraid of SLORC burning down the village, and they allow the villagers to 
leave for a short time when the SLORC arrives.

On xx March when I was coming back from Moulmein hospital, along the 
road I saw  two truckloads of soldiers, two truckloads of porters, one 
truckload of dogs [possibly to search for landmines] and one truck loaded 
with mules for carrying things.
 
Then after I got back, I met two porters near a rubber plantation in XXXX 
village.  One of them had been injured in his cheeks by a knife.  He could 
not speak at all.  The other one was injured on his nose.  He could speak.  
He said to me, "Please help us!"  I was afraid of them.  It was night time.  
I asked them, "How can I help you?  Where have you come from?"  He said, 
"We were arrested in Moulmein."  I didn't ask them their names.  Both of 
them were from Moulmein.  They were Burman.  I didn't ask their ages, but 
maybe around 30.  He said he was arrested in Moulmein market when his 
wife was selling things.  "I was arrested when I went to give a lunch box to 
my wife", he told me.  The other one [who could not speak]  was also 
arrested in the market.  All of them were arrested, tied with a rope and then

they had to work on the road construction near Kyone Done.  They took 
them by truck to the construction site near Kyone Done.  Some of them fell 
sick and some died.  They got nothing to eat.  The SLORC soldiers only 
fed them some banana stems.  This one man was stabbed in his cheeks and 
fell down in the valley.  Another man who remained at the top of the hill 
had his throat cut.

Q:  Why were they tortured like that?
A:  They had no food to give to the labourers, so they wanted them to die.  
The villagers became a burden for them.  I think these 2 men complained to 
the soldiers that they had no food to eat so a cruel soldier stabbed one of 
them in his cheeks so that he could not eat, and cut the other on his nose.
 
I offered them some food.  After the meal, he said that they wanted to go to 
the hospital.  He had no money.  His family was arrested too.  He had no 
money to pay for the treatment.  So I gave them 2,000 Kyats and took them 
to the hospital.  First I brought the men to XXXX.  When we arrived at the 
car road, we went to the hospital by passenger truck.  I requested the nurse 
to arrange care for them and to write a letter to their parents.  One of them

needed blood.  Then I went back home.  I didn't ask how long they were 
taken for [as porters].  I didn't ask any other questions because my duty 
was just to get them to hospital.
 
After that, when I went to Kyauk Kweh I met another porter who had 
escaped from the SLORC soldiers.  He had lost his way near Kyauk Kweh.  
I didn't see any injury on his body.  He said that he was tortured, so he 
fled.  He said, "I didn't have enough food and no water to drink.  I had to 
drink my own urine."  I asked him, "Where are you going back to?"  He said 
to xxxx.  He was a porter and the Burmese soldiers tortured him.  That's why 
he ran away.  He was an old man.  He said he had some children.
 
The Ya Wa Ta [Village LORC] authorities ordered that all the people who 
possess a television and video set must show two video tapes [generally, 
the only people who own such equipment are those who run public cinema 
houses].  If they don't show these video tapes, the authorities will seize
the 
video equipment.  My mother told me to go and see these video tapes.  One 
tape shows Karen soldiers and Burmese soldiers killing each other with 
many casualties on both sides [this is to promote the new SLORC line 
calling everyone to "exchange arms for peace", i.e. surrender, as shown 
on TV Myanmar and in the New Light of Myanmar].  The second one was 
the surrendering ceremony of Karen soldiers [Tha Muh Heh and some 
troops from KNLA #16 Battalion, when Tha Muh Heh went on his knees 
before SLORC General Maung Aye and Maung Aye walked on the Karen 
flag].  I don't know the name of the commander.  In that tape, I saw a lot of

weapons surrendered.  There was one Karen Buddhist monk shown in 
Kyaikdon, and it said that when somebody wants to surrender to the 
SLORC, he will inform the SLORC for them.
 
Q:  Is your village a Karen village?
A:  Yes, mainly Karen.  Mostly Buddhist.  Only 10 Burmese households 
are living there.  Nobody surrendered to the SLORC in my village.
 
Q:  Is DKBA in your village?
A:  Usually it is the SLORC Army that comes to our village - sometimes 
even a SLORC Intelligence man, disguised as a blanket-seller.  Those with 
the yellow headband [DKBA] usually come and ask for money, chicken 
and food.  The headman cannot collect everything for them so he gives the 
things himself [from his own possessions, not from the villagers].
 
Q:  What is the feeling in your village?
A:  At night time we have to hide and sleep in other places.  We do not 
sleep in our own houses.  Sometimes the SLORC troops and the Karen 
soldiers are shooting at each other, and sometimes they rob our village.
 
Q:  When you fled, did you see many soldiers along the way?
A:  I saw many Burmese soldiers along the Thanbyuzayat-Three Pagodas 
Pass road but I didn't see any Karen soldiers.  The Burmese soldiers 
collected 1,000 Kyats from each [passenger] truck.  They also shot a 
passenger truck.  I saw two burnt cars and one bullock cart along the road, 
on the way to Thanbyuzayat near xxxx.  In my truck there were 4 soldiers 
but in all the others there were many more soldiers.  So I asked a soldier, 
"Oh Uncle!  Why are those cars all burnt?"  "We shot them", he replied.  
Then I asked: "Why did you shoot?"  "We shot at the Karen soldiers.  
Unfortunately some civilians were also wounded.  We couldn't give them 
treatment so we shot them", he explained to me.  Then I spoke to an old 
man: "Oh Uncle!  How many were killed?"  He said, "An old woman was 
shot in the back of her head and died on the spot.  Some of her relatives 
also died."
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	  - [END OF PART 5 - SEE SUBSEQUENT POSTING FOR PART 6] -


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