Burma as Nacrotic State By Geograph

[RANGOONP@xxxxxxx]

OnlineHost:  Copyright 1995 National Geographic Society; licensed to America
Online, Inc.

OnlineHost:  Your host is Norma II (CSEmcee 11)!

OnlineHost: For 26 years authorities shut Burma off from the world, at times
excluding visitors altogether or limiting visas to one day. Eased restrictions
in recent years enabled National Geographic writer Joel Swerdlow to get rare
glimpses of the secretive nation. Return with Joel to his boyhood home of
Rangoon to discuss Burma's military and civil struggles, Buddhist
spirituality, scenic countryside, and changing culture.

CSEMCEE11:  Good evening and welcome to America Online, Joel!

JLSwerdlow:  Good evening. Glad to be here.

CSEMCEE11:  Are you ready for some questions from the audience?

JLSwerdlow:  I'm ready. it is a great topic and a great country.

CSEMCEE11:  Here is our first audience question:

Question:  What is the current political system in Burma?  Additionally, how
does it tie into its economy? And finally, are the Burmese (sp) a society that
is progressive or still rather a agricultural and/or simple manufacturing
society?

JLSwerdlow:  Burma has a military dictatorship. The ruling council is called
SLORC. They also say they want a market economy. That is still an open
question whether you can have little political freedom and a free market.

Question:  What is the future of Burma in regard to the US?

JLSwerdlow:  Another good question. Burma is one of our chief sources of
illegal drugs. SLORC still has not shown itself ready to move towards
democracy. What the U.S. government and U.S. companies will do is still
unclear.

Question:  What are your favorite topics to write about?

JLSwerdlow:  I like writing about topics that have a personal angle. I lived
in Burma as a young boy,  for example, and this was my first time back.

Question:  Have seen the movie "Beyond Rangoon", and if so, what was your
impression?

JLSwerdlow:  I have not seen it, but I have read many reviews. When I was in
Burma I spent some time with cast members who had just finished filming in
Malaysia.  My impression is that it catches some of the violence quite well.

Question:  Has the release of Aung San Suu Kyi had any effect on gov't reform,
e.g. political freedoms?

JLSwerdlow:  According to the U.N. and to human rights groups, political
arrests and torture may even have increased. Burma still will not let the Red
Cross visit its jails.

Question:  I am amazed that your first comment is about illegal drugs.  Is
there something else the US and Burma can do to make the world a better place
to live?

JLSwerdlow:  Make the world a better place to live? Isn't that what we all try
to do in some way all the time? In a case like Burma, I think that being aware
of what is going on is a useful -- and necessary -- first step.

Question:  What are the living conditions like?

JLSwerdlow:  The rich live very well. Most people are extraordinarily poor. I
saw children everywhere who suffered from malnutrition -- this in a country
that is very rich in food!

Comment:  I admire and respect your work a lot and I hope you continue to
strive at what you do. -)

JLSwerdlow:  Thank you. The Burma story was very exciting, but also difficult.
There was great human cost and some very human moments that could not be
reported because of SLORC. Shortly after the National Geographic story was
published, Burma's government released Aung San Suu Kyi from house arrest.
Many people hoped this would bring some change but what will happen in Burma
remains unclear.

Question:  In your opinion, is a Master's degree from a prestigious Journalism
program worth pursuing for somebody who aspires to the type of writing you do?

JLSwerdlow:  A change of pace from talking about Burma.....I am always in
favor of people getting advanced degrees. I think to be a writer, however, you
do not study writing. You do things.

Question:  What is the general conditions for farmers in the country side? Is
there visible improvement of living standards or deterioration?

JLSwerdlow:  I saw much poverty in the countryside. People told me that
conditions were worsening.  Prices for farm goods in the city markets were
very high.  I saw lots of school-age children working in the fields and not
going to school.

Question:  What was one of your most exciting stories? devastating stories?

JLSwerdlow:  I tried to find the families of students who had been killed in
1988 when the army opened fire on peaceful pro-democracy demonstrators. I
discovered that their records have disappeared from university files. It was
right out of 1984. they no longer exist.

Question:  Has Burma's story which has unfolded in your eyes affected your
views in anyway?

JLSwerdlow:  It has robbed me of many of my children memories. Now when I
close my eyes I no longer see the Rangoon of my youth. I see the Rangoon of
today. This was the highest cost for me. My personal views -- pro-democracy,
anti-torture--did not change.

OnlineHost:  We are chatting with Joel Swerdlow, writer for Nat'l Geographic
discussing his return to Burma.

Question:  How should the U.S. deal with the Burmese government? Specifically,
should we try to engage the government or isolate it?

JLSwerdlow:  My personal opinion would add little. It is clear that Aung San
Suu Kyi, winner of the Nobel Peace Prize and other pro-democracy leaders want
the U.S. government to move very slowly.

Question:  How long did you spend researching and writing this article?

JLSwerdlow:  In some ways I have spent my entire adult life with a piece of me
still in Burma. Actually writing the article took a few weeks after I
returned.

Question:  I arrived late, sorry. What is the current political/economic state
of Burma?

JLSwerdlow:  Burma still have a military dictatorship, that in terms of
torture and forced labor is clearly one of the world's most repressive.

Question:  In what issue is this story?  Can we download it from the NG area?

JLSwerdlow:  It is in the July 1995 issue. I'm not sure if it is in the area.
Try keyword NGS.

Question:  Why is it difficult to find a article after it is mentioned on a
menu?

JLSwerdlow:  In what sense do you mean difficult? You can print/save any
article that is on the menu system. If there's a specific article you're
looking for, send us a note to screen name asking, or post a question in the
message boards.

Question:  How did you get your job with Nat'l Geographic?

JLSwerdlow:  I have been a journalist, academic researcher and author for ten
years when I did my first freelance story for NG. I joined the staff three
years ago.

Question:  Has Burma's situation made you think about taking action if not
done so already? Do you think your story on Burma's situation will convince
others to take action?

JLSwerdlow:  Even before I went to Burma for this story I knew that to be
morally consistent I would have to become much more aware of what country
produced the things I buy in the U.S. Burma has no monopoly on repression.  I
believe that the first step, sometimes the most painful, is to become aware.

Question:  Your July article was tougher than usual Nat Geo stuff. Was it hard
to get them to publish it?

JLSwerdlow:  No. Bill Allen the editor, and Bob Poole the associate editor in
charge of text were enthusiastic throughout.

Question:  Did you eat the food or did you take some of your own? Can you
drink the water?

JLSwerdlow:  I ate the food and drank only things that were bottled. Some
weeks I lived on bananas and other fruit I could peel.  They did wonders for
my stomach.

Question:  Did you have any idea that Aung San Suu Kyi would be released so
close to the publication of your article?

JLSwerdlow:  SLORC told me that she would be released around time of
publication, but I had no way of knowing if they were being candid. The story
says that she would accept release with no conditions, which is what happened.

Question:  Do you know what Amnesty Int'l's stand is on Burma?

JLSwerdlow:  All recent human rights reports document that if anything torture
and other repression has increased since the release of Aung San Suu Kyi. She
tried to send a towel to a political prisoner in Insein Prison and the
government took it away.

Question:  What happens to the people when they get sick, do they get care?

JLSwerdlow:  Health care by western standards is very primitive for most
people. Life expectancy is low. At the same time, people have access to
traditional medicine, which can do things beyond the understanding of western
medicine.

Question:  What is it like writing for Nat'l Geo?

JLSwerdlow:  It is very exciting because you can pursue extraordinary topics
in a way that only National Geographic makes possible. The art and
photographic departments make any story world class. Knowing that going into a
story enhances all parts of it.

Question:  I haven't read the article yet, but this interview has made me want
to read about Burma. I am curious, why does the Burmese gov't use forced
labor?  What do the laborers do?

JLSwerdlow: Using forced labor is a tradition dating back hundreds, if not
thousands , of years. The lucky laborers do things like build roads. The
unlucky ones do things like clear mine fields for the military.

Question:  Your article did much to raise awareness of Burma.  Will we see
another article soon?  Please?

JLSwerdlow:  Thank you. I do not think NG will revisit Burma soon. My current
story is on Vincent Van Gogh (a very different topic). Then I will do "Under
New York," going down under Manhattan.

Question:  What religion(s) do the Burmese practice?  Do you find the
religious beliefs consistent with the government repression?

JLSwerdlow:  Great question. They are Buddhist, and among the world's most
intensely devout people. This helps give them a warmth and a depth found, I
think, nowhere else. How can it exist with torture and forced labor? Not even
the poets have been able to answer that.

Question:  What exactly is the situation in Burma, at this time?

JLSwerdlow:  Aung San Suu Kyi has left her home only once. The largest crowd
that has come to her gate to hear her speak has been 3,000. The situation is
still very unclear. Burma's future could go in many different directions.

Question:  I am not justifying the towel incident, but I would bet that a
prison here would do the same, to prevent suicide amongst inmates, could that
be the same there?

JLSwerdlow:  Burma does not allow the International Red Cross to visit its
prisons. When I asked a top military official why not, he openly mocked me.
The towel is a symbol. Aung San Suu Kyi wants to help the political prisoners
suffering right now.  So far, they have not let her--as far as we know.

Question:  I know you are not a photographer, but what would you recommend an
individual do to help become a geographic photographer?

JLSwerdlow:  That's a tough one. I'm sure if you call there is a procedure..
One of NG's best photographers, Flip Nicklin, will be here for a chat on
Friday at 10 p.m. Maybe you should talk to him.

CSEMCEE11:  We have time for one last question.

Question:  Have you done anything on archeology lately?

JLSwerdlow:  I personally have not, but NG under George Stuart has a continual
stream of great stories. "The Dawn of Humans"  was in September 1995.

CSEMCEE11:  Thanks for being with us in Center Stage, it has been a pleasure,
Joel Swerdlow!

JLSwerdlow:  Thank you for having me over.

CSEMCEE11:  Thanks to you audience for joining us!

CSEMCEE11:  Thanks to our audience for your questions. A transcript of this
session will be available within 24 hours.

OnlineHost: Copyright 1995 National Geographic Society; licensed to America
Online, Inc.



Transmitted: 10/19/95 21:24