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KHRG #98-04 Part 4/7 (Camp attacks)
- Subject: KHRG #98-04 Part 4/7 (Camp attacks)
- From: khrg@xxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 02:14:00
ATTACKS ON KAREN REFUGEE CAMPS: 1998
An Independent Report by the Karen Human Rights Group
May 29, 1998 / KHRG #98-04
*** PART 4 OF 7; SEE OTHER POSTINGS FOR OTHER PARTS OF THIS REPORT ***
___________________________________________________________________________
#H3.
NAME: "Naw Eh" SEX: F AGE: 38 Sgaw Karen Buddhist
FAMILY: Married, 3 children INTERVIEWED: 15/3/98
ADDRESS: Kyet Paun village, Hlaing Bwe township, Pa'an district; now in
Huay Kaloke
["Naw Eh"'s house is in Section 7, beside the main gate which faces west
toward Burma. The initial 'reconnaissance' group entered the camp past
her house, while the main force attacked from the opposite side of the
camp. Her house was in one of the few parts of the camp which were not
burned.]
Q: When and how did they come to the camp?
A: First on March 10th at ten or eleven o'clock, a Thai soldier came into
the camp with a motorcycle. He wore civilian clothes with military
trousers. He went to see the section leader, whose name is Pyay Kyaw.
Then he went into the camp and after he came back he stopped and told us,
"Stop weaving your roof because it is too dark, go to sleep." [They were
in their house making leaf shingles to repair their roof.] Then I went to
sleep with my daughter, and after a while a truck went past, between some
motorcycles. There were three motorcycles in front of the truck and four
behind. The car looked like a military car but it looked like an old one.
It
was green with stripes - you could see it because it was full moon. It was
very big, it looked like a military truck. It could contain 20 people, and
it
was full of soldiers. They were all wearing shirts with two pockets,
striped
[striped camouflage] uniforms and they had guns. They came from the
main road to Wangka [the border], from the direction of the two Thai
gates. They had to pass through the main gate. After that this road goes
to
all the sections, it goes to Section One, Section Two, sections 4, 6, and
8?
When I saw the truck I couldn't sleep, I was afraid that maybe it was
DKBA or Burmese soldiers. The Thai had told the section leader that the
situation was not so good, and when I went to my friend's house he'd also
told me that the situation was not so good. The truck stayed in the camp
about half an hour, and after I'd been asleep for just a moment it came
back. Now there was only one person on each motorcycle and three
people in the cab of the truck. I didn't see the others. When they came
there were no lights on the truck but the motorcycles had their lights on,
and there were three soldiers on each motorcycle. When they came back
there was one person on each motorcycle and only the first motorcycle had
its lights on. Also, they were noisy when they came but when they went
back they were silent [she demonstrated that on their way into the camp
they were revving their engines, but on the way back they were idling and
going slowly]. A few minutes after they came back, the electric lights at
the Thai checkpoint turned off, and after that the shooting started.
After the Thai soldiers [on the motorcycles; she believes that they were
Thai] had been away for a while we heard the gunshots and we fled. They
fired mortars and guns, all together. I couldn't do anything, I just
called
my daughter and told her, "Run , run, where is your father?" We couldn't
do anything, I was with my daughter but my husband was on security duty
that night. They have to guard, ten persons each night [refugees have
their
own camp security patrols].
We heard explosions from section one and section four, we were afraid
and we ran. They fired big weapons and guns. I heard the sound of heavy
weapons over there and over there [pointing all around]. They fired shells
across our section and they landed in the beanfield. Maybe some landed in
the camp, I don't know. We were afraid. When we ran into the field a
shell landed in front of us and we ran quickly. We shouted, "Run, run!"
Some were shouting, some were running, some were crying, some were
running but they had no sarong. We ran to the school in Section 7 and
continued on to Thai Huay Kaloke [the Thai village beside the camp]. I
fled to the Thai village and my legs were shaking.
After their guns fired for a while my husband came back home carrying his
rice, he put it down on the ground and ran without it to the Thai village.
When he arrived in the Thai village he said he didn't know if the shooters
were Thai or Burmese. I don't know myself if they were Thai or Burmese
soldiers. They were wearing striped [camouflage] uniforms and their hats
looked like Burmese soldiers' hats.
When the camp was burning I stayed in the Thai village because there was
no one going back so we dared not go back. The Burmese and the DKBA
went back at 2 a.m. and we went back to the camp at 5 a.m. When the
explosions stopped my husband and some people went back to the camp
but I dared not go back. At five in the morning we came back home.
Q: Did you see the Thai soldiers when you ran?
A: Yes, I saw the Thai fire truck. Before the burning we didn't see the
Thai soldiers in the camp, but after the burning they came in groups of
ten.
The other truck and the motorcycles did not come back after the soldiers
had finished shooting.
Q: Do you think that when the truck first came the Thai soldiers were
staying at the checkpoint?
A: I don't know, maybe they knew that the DKBA and the Burmese
soldiers would come. When they were coming the Thai said to me, "The
situation is not so good so don't weave your roof. It is the time to
sleep,
why don't you sleep?" Maybe they had an agreement with the DKBA and
the Burmese soldiers. I dare not speak about that. We are afraid of the
Thai soldiers.
Q: Do you think that this time the Burmese soldiers came with DKBA?
A: Yes, I think they were Burmese and DKBA. They said, "Within three
days you all have to go back to Burma. If you don't go back we will come
again and kill all the people". A woman who stays in Section 1 told me
that. So that whole night we were afraid [the third night after the
attack].
We were afraid, we were shaking and we thought that we would die, and
that night the Thai soldiers said, "No one can go outside the camp to
sleep.
If you go outside the camp the Thai police will come and attack you and
send you back to Burma". The Thai soldiers asked, "Why do you go to
sleep outside the camp?" [Many refugees wanted to spend the night in the
fields outside the camp.] But the [refugee] section leader said, "Those
refugees who want to go sleep outside the camp can do so." We didn't
know if the DKBA and the Burmese soldiers would come again. We were
afraid of the DKBA but we were also afraid of the Thai soldiers, so we
dared not go outside the camp to sleep. We fled over near the school and
hid there. The mosquitoes bit us and the insects bit us, we slept like
that
and the cars came. Three cars came, the first had his lights on and the
others had no lights. They looked like the car which came three days
before. I don't know if they looked like Thai cars or Burmese cars because
I have never seen a Thai car. But the car that came the first day and the
cars that came three days after looked the same, and there were a lot of
soldiers with big weapons. We thought maybe they had come to tell us to
go back to Burma so we were ready to run, and we didn't know if they
were Burmese or Thai soldiers. We were afraid. There were all wearing
striped uniforms. When I saw the cars I thought that we were all going to
die. Maybe it was about midnight, I had my watch but I didn't look. We
were shaking and I was together with my friends. My friends told me,
"Don't say anything, we live in the Thai's country so the Thai will kill
us."
Now we run every night. I don't know if they will come back, we are
afraid and we go and sleep outside every night. We are afraid of Thais,
Burmese, and DKBA; everybody. We are afraid and we have to run away
and sleep outside. The Thai soldiers said, "Don't stay here. Gawlawa
[white foreigners] won't look after you. Go back to Burma." We are
afraid. The Thai soldier who talked to us was the one who stays at the
checkpoint. He told us, "I told you to go back to Burma and you haven't
gone. Why do you trust the Gawlawa? We are bigger than the Gawlawa.
If we block the road then the Gawlawa's rice won't be able to come. If we
send you, you must go back. You have a country. Why don't you go
back? Why are you so happy to stay here?" We are not happy to stay
here! We can't stay in Burma so we come and stay here. If we had our
country why would we come and stay in their country? Why do they
speak to us like that? "If we block the Gawlawa's rice you won't be able
to
receive it." The section leader explained what they said to us because we
can't understand Thai language. I want to hate the Thais but I dare not.
I'm afraid.
Q: Do you still dare to stay here?
A: I don't know, where the people stay I will follow them. If the others
go
to another place I will follow, but I will never go back to Burma again.
We were not happy in Burma, the Burmese made us suffer. My brothers
and sisters live in Burma, but I'm afraid of the Burmese. The Burmese
treated us badly and the DKBA also. When the Burmese hit us, the
DKBA just watched and they didn't do anything. I had to build the road,
the Burmese soldiers said that the foreigners would come and inspect the
road that the Burmese wanted to show them. They said that the foreigners
would come and look at Ku Baw Chaung, Du Yaw Baw Chaung, T'Nay
Hsah Baw Chaung, Paung Ye Bu, and Baw Chaung. So we had to build
the road and we had no time to rest. Someone from every house had to go.
If we didn't go we had to pay 200 Kyats. How could we give them 200
Kyats when we had no money? I had nothing, no money, but I had to buy
rice, 500 or 600 Kyats for one basket. Now it is 1,500 Kyats for one
basket! We had to build the road near the mountain, and it was very stony.
We built the road from my village to Daw Lan and to Thaya Gone. The
Burmese soldiers stay in Daw Lan and Thaya Gone. After that we had to
build the road from T'Nay Hsah to Nabu. They said the foreigners will
come and that the foreigners don't like it when the roads are not good. So
the soldiers told us to work. We had to build the road in the afternoon
but
they didn't want us to have lunch. They hit us. They kicked me. If we
took a rest they also shouted at us. If we went and protested to DKBA
they just said we had to work with discipline. I couldn't work, I wanted
to
take a rest, I was very tired and I nearly died, so I came to the camp and
I
have stayed here for one year already. I arrived in this camp when it had
all been burned and everything was lost [after the January 1997 burning].
Nobody gave me clothes, I stayed with my cousin, I was not registered in
the camp. Slowly, I started to work and I asked my friends to give me
some clothes.
Q: What do you think about the DKBA?
A: The DKBA don't remember anything. They looked like drunkards.
They had taken the medicine [drugs]. They looked like fools. When they
take the medicine they don't know anything and we are afraid that they will
kill us. We dare not go near them. We are afraid of the DKBA and of the
Burmese. The Burmese are friendly to the DKBA, but what they will do
one day to the DKBA we don't know.
___________________________________________________________________________
#H4.
1) NAME: "Saw Lah" SEX: M AGE: 52 Sgaw Karen Christian
2) NAME: "Naw Wah" SEX: F AGE: 43 Sgaw Karen Christian
FAMILY: Married, 3 children aged 15, 17 and 20 INTERVIEWED: 16/3/98
ADDRESS: Wangka village, Myawaddy township; now in Huay Kaloke
["Saw Lah" and "Naw Wah" are husband and wife. They stay in Section 1
of the camp, where they have lived for 14 years.]
Q: Can you describe what happened?
"Saw Lah": We decided to flee because we were afraid. I was afraid of
the bullets. When the house was burning we ran. What else could we do?
Everything was burning. We saw the soldiers setting fire to the houses.
We were hiding and we didn't know where to run. We hid just a short
time, not more than 15 minutes. We were staying under the house and
when I saw the fire I ran away.
"Naw Wah": We were under the house. If the house was not burning we
would not have run. Someone had told us that if they came it wouldn't be
to burn our houses, just to find people [important people like camp
leaders].
Q: What happened when you fled?
"Saw Lah": They came from Section One. We saw them, they started to
burn the houses, one after the other. When they came they passed in front
of us, and when they were some distance away we started to run. [At that
time he was hiding beside the streambed in section 2.] The other people
had run and only the three of us were left: myself, my wife, and the
woman who sells chicken in her shop. All my children had already fled.
When we ran to the road in Section Two, a soldier touched me with his
gun. He asked me, "Are you Buddhist or Christian?" He spoke Sgaw
Karen. If I had answered that I am a Christian he would have killed me, so
I answered that I was Buddhist. He didn't say anything when I said that I
was Buddhist, he just took my things and then he said, "We told you to go
back to Burma so why didn't you go back? I will kill you." When he
pointed his gun at me he saw my watch and he took it. He also took my
wife's watch and a ring with a stone. He took everything, my bag and one
camera, but there was no money in my bag. In my bag there was a Bible,
but he didn't see it because he just took the whole bag. I was afraid they
would see the Bible, but they didn't do anything because the commander
told them to be quick about it and they went away. He was also Sgaw
Karen.
"Naw Wah": The one who touched us with his gun spoke Sgaw Karen.
Some others also spoke Sgaw Karen but they were drunk so they didn't
know what they were doing. They asked for money. I said, "I have no
money".
"Saw Lah": After the soldiers left us we went to the stream. When we
ran to the stream the soldiers came and asked some women, "Are you
Christian or Buddhist?" I know these women because they stay with my
sister. The women said, "We are Christians". When the women said that,
a soldier threatened them with his gun so the women said, "Oh we lied to
you, we are not Christian, we are Buddhist!" and then the soldier didn't do
anything. He took the women's watches and he asked for their money.
One woman said "I have no money" so they checked her neck [to see if she
had a necklace]. Then they went back to the other side of the stream. I
heard all that because they were hiding near us.
"Naw Wah": The soldiers told some of the women, "If you are Christian
we will kill you". Nobody dared to say that they are Christian.
Q: How many soldiers did you see?
"Saw Lah": I saw 8 soldiers. We saw the soldiers when we ran. They
didn't seem normal but they did not smell of wine. One was holding a
walkie-talkie, maybe he was a commander. The one with the walkie-talkie
stood near us. The other soldiers were standing behind him. They were
wearing striped shirts and their trousers were also striped, the same as
the
Thai soldiers, with hats. Their hats also looked like Thai soldiers' hats.
[He indicated a baseball-cap style hat.] The colour of the hats was dark
green. I didn't see any scarves or any number on their uniforms, I dared
not look. They wore striped uniforms and jungle boots. They came in
three separate groups. One group was in the middle, another on the left,
and a third group was behind a tree [a tree near the stream at the back of
section one; probably their mortar support group]. They all came on a
logging truck.
"Naw Wah": Some other people saw the car. But we ran because we
were afraid.
Q: Did you see their weapons?
"Saw Lah": AK, he touched me with an AK for sure [AK47]. I know
because the AK is short. The other ones had M16, G3, and 79. The
Burmese use that kind of gun, I know it. Not G4 but G3, AR, AK, and 79;
the one that they shelled with was a 79 [M79 grenade launcher; G3 is the
standard Burmese Army assault rifle, not generally used by opposition
forces. AK47, M16 and AR are commonly used by opposition forces,
occasionally also by the Burmese Army].
___________________________________________________________________________
#H5.
NAME: "Naw Eh Say" SEX: F AGE: 30 Pwo Karen Buddhist
FAMILY: Married, 4 children aged 2-12 INTERVIEWED: 16/3/98
ADDRESS: Du Yaw village, Pa'an District; now in Huay Kaloke
["Naw Eh Say" has lived in Huay Kaloke camp for 10 years. She now
lives in Section 1.]
Q: When did you start to run?
A: When I heard gunshots I started to run. Another house had already
started to burn, and I saw that my house was burning. I don't know what
time it was. I have no watch. We ran and hid in the ditch [dry streambed]
together with many friends. We heard shooting, ta-ta-ta-ta-ta! so we
dared not look. We stayed in the ditch, each on our own. Then the
soldiers jumped down in the ditch, I don't know where came from. One
soldier touched all of us with his gun. We stayed quietly and he said,
"Don't anybody run away". He spoke Sgaw Karen. He asked me, "Are
you Christian or Buddhist?" I said "I'm Buddhist". Then he asked us,
"Why don't you go back [to Burma]?" We said, "We have no money to go
back". Then he touched me with his gun and he said, "We will find your
bag." He asked me, "Did you put a gun in your bag?" We said, "No, we
don't have any guns". We opened the bag, he looked in it and then he went
away. I don't know which way they went, I dared not look.
Q: What did the soldiers look like?
A: I saw three soldiers. They were Sgaw Karen. They wore striped
[camouflage] uniforms. Their hats looked like soldiers' hats. Their hats
were striped, with scarves tied around them. Not yellow, dark green
scarves. I didn't see any badges on their uniforms. I dared not look, I
was
afraid that they would shoot me. I bowed to them. I bowed like we do to
monks, I made them the Buddhist sign with my hands. I said that I was
Buddhist. I asked them, "Don't kill me". I was afraid.
___________________________________________________________________________
#H6.
NAME: "Saw Ghay Htoo" SEX: M AGE: 30 Sgaw Karen Christian
FAMILY: Single INTERVIEWED: 16/3/98
ADDRESS: Pa'an District; now in Huay Kaloke refugee camp
["Saw Ghay Htoo" has lived in Section 11 of Huay Kaloke camp since
1996. He has only one leg and wears a simple prosthesis on the other.]
Q: Did anything happen before the night of the attack?
A: One night before, the Thai soldiers said, "You have to turn off the
lights at nine o'clock". The second night [the night of the attack], they
came at seven o'clock and told us to switch off the lights. They said,
"Don't switch on the lights". Then some motorcycles came, they were not
noisy. There were three persons on each motorcycle. Then they went
back and disappeared, and after 12 o'clock they [the attackers] entered and
fired their guns.
Q: Had the Thais ever come to this part of the camp at night before?
A: Yes, they came here before but they didn't come like that. If they
come
they usually have their lights on, but this time there were no lights.
Q: Then what happened?
A: I heard heavy weapons, they were shooting near here [section 10 in the
camp market]. They were firing heavy weapons from under a tree and
they used the tree as cover. 2 1/2-inch shells landed here and over there.
They fired them from Ah Na Mine Gone [in section seven near the main
Thai gate]. I saw maybe six 2 1/2-inch shells. Three shells landed near
me. Another 2 1/2-inch shell landed near my house and six persons got
injured. Three landed in the pond. One landed near me and the explosion
made me jump into the pond. Then I got out because I was very cold.
Another shell of a big weapon landed first, and then I saw the soldiers.
They also fired their guns, so people didn't know which way to run. A lot
of people ran to the other side. I didn't run yet, I watched. The fire
started
in section one. The houses around mine burned, and then the fire spread to
my house. I stayed around here, beside the pond. After they had set fire
to
the houses, they came back and shot, shot, shot.... they came back in
front
of me and the soldier in the middle was holding a walkie-talkie. They
spoke Sgaw Karen, Pwo Karen, and also Burmese, all mixed. I stayed like
that. I wasn't afraid. As for me, if I die it is not a problem, I kept
that in
my mind. After I saw them something came into my mind - I wanted to
shoot them. One soldier saw me and he was about to shoot me. I told
him, "No, don't shoot me". He asked me, "Are you Thai or Sgaw Karen?"
After he asked me that he tried to shoot me, but his finger slipped from
the
trigger so he didn't shoot me. Then he said, "Oh, I didn't shoot you" and
he went away. After many houses had already burned I started to run. I
ran alone. I ran this way. When I ran there were no Burmese and no
DKBA. I didn't see any soldiers then, everyone had disappeared.
Q: Did you see any Thais?
A: No. I saw 21 [DKBA/Burmese] soldiers, I counted them. I didn't see
any other soldiers. I can't run well so I was sitting and watching, so I
could count only the soldiers who passed in front of me. These 21 soldiers
were wearing streaked [camouflage] jackets and streaked trousers, and
some were wearing plain green ones. They were old uniforms, not new.
There were more soldiers with streaked uniforms than without. Only four
or five wore plain green uniforms. Not all of them had their hats on. Two
or three had hats like the Burmese military hat. Some had red scarves
[around their heads]. Their guns were AR and AK, and one was also
carrying a walkie-talkie. That one was not wearing a striped uniform
[camouflage]. They were not normal. We knew that because they were
not walking straight. The Burmese were wearing the plain green uniforms.
I think I saw maybe two or three who looked Burmese.
Q: Did you see any badges on their uniforms?
A: No, I didn't look at the badges, I only counted the soldiers. Maybe
they wore the Bandoola badge [the Burmese Army badge], but I didn't
look. We also dared not look at their faces, we only counted them. I
stayed squatting so they could only see my head. Maybe if they had seen
my foot they would have shot me [they would have guessed that he was a
former Karen soldier because of his prosthesis]. I told them, "don't
shoot", and they didn't shoot me.
Q: Did the soldiers ask your religion?
A: No, but they asked that of others. My friends ran to the other side
[of
the camp] and the soldiers told them, "If you are Christian we will kill
you
all." But my friends are Buddhists, so the soldiers didn't do anything to
them.
Q: At the end, did the soldiers leave quickly or slowly?
A: They left quickly. They ran back. They left from Section Seven, but
maybe they separated into two groups and some left through Sections 5
and 6. After they left me, I didn't go to the Thai village. I went
immediately to look for my friends, because maybe someone was wounded
in the refugee camp. I didn't see any soldiers there because of the smoke
of the fire. I couldn't see, and after that the soldiers went back.
Before
they went back they fired their big gun from under the tree, but the shells
did not land here. There was automatic fire, and also G3, G4, and AR.
We didn't see exactly but when I heard the noise I knew which kind of
gun it was ["Saw Ghay Htoo" used to be a soldier]. I saw one G4 [G3
and G4 are standard Burmese Army assault weapons not commonly used
by opposition forces]. After they fired G3 and G4, 2 1/2-inch shells came
again. Then when they finished firing their guns, the fire started to go
out.
___________________________________________________________________________
#H7.
NAME: "Saw Po Gyi" SEX: M AGE: 38 Pwo Karen Buddhist
FAMILY: Married, 4 children aged 10-16 INTERVIEWED: 16/3/98
ADDRESS: Pa'an District; now in Huay Kaloke refugee camp
["Saw Po Gyi" has lived in Huay Kaloke camp since 1989. His house is in
Section 11.]
Q: What happened to you that night?
A: That night at 12:30, shells of heavy weapons flew. DKBA and
Burmese soldiers came and shot at the camp. I started running after they
fired heavy weapons. Bullets from both big and small guns were flying.
The shells of heavy weapons were coming from near the Thai checkpoint.
The bullets from small guns were coming from here, and also from other
places. I hid. We couldn't stay in the stream because there was water in
it,
but we stayed beside it. They met us there when they went back. There
were about 10 of us by the stream. There were three men and the others
were women and children. They didn't do anything to the women, but they
told us, "Don't run, we will shoot you and kill you all". They asked,
"Have
you seen any Kaw Thoo Lei [KNLA soldiers]?" One man said, "There is
no Kaw Thoo Lei". They touched me with their guns. They were M1
[carbine] and M16. I dared not move. The soldier who touched me with
his gun spoke Sgaw Karen. The soldier who spoke Pwo Karen told us,
"Don't run, the shells of heavy weapons will hit you. You are not our
enemy. Stay quiet, we will harm only our enemies." They grabbed two
bags and some watches from the people. One was a student, she had two
shirts, one skirt and 150 Baht in her bag. Then they asked us, "Are you
Buddhist or Christian?" We said, "We are Buddhists", and they said, "If
you are Christian, we will kill all of you. Tomorrow you must go back to
Myaing Gyi Ngu [DKBA headquarters in Pa'an District]. If you don't go
back, in three days we will come back again." Then they went away and
they started to fire their guns in the direction of the camp. They fired
heavy weapons, and they fired 79 [M79 grenades] two times. After they
had shot and burned, the soldiers went away.
Q: How many soldiers did you see?
A: I saw 21 soldiers, but I didn't hear them speaking. They were the same
that he saw [see interview #H6 with "Saw Ghay Htoo"]. They wore
streaked hats, but not all of them. Some hats were different, but the moon
was shining so we dared not look in their faces. Some of the soldiers wore
striped uniforms, and some of the soldiers looked like Burmese soldiers.
There were more than ten soldiers with streaked uniforms and four
soldiers were wearing Burmese uniforms. These ones were carrying
M16's but I didn't see any sign on their uniforms. We dared not look if
there were any badges on the DKBA uniforms because we don't like them,
they are our enemies. We don't like the way they are working, they don't
work the right way. They were drunk. They looked like they had taken
myin say [the drug commonly taken by DKBA, known as Ya Ba or Ya Ma
in Thai, which makes one aggressive and stupid].
They left this way, the same way that they came. They crossed the fields.
They threw away the old things [from what they had stolen] and they kept
only the new ones. The people found those [old] things later. After they
left we came back to our house and looked for all our things. My house
did not burn, but we kept some of our things outside and they had burned
in the fire. The soldiers put them into the fire and they burned.
___________________________________________________________________________
- [END OF PART 4; SEE SUBSEQUENT POSTINGS FOR PARTS 5 THROUGH 7] -