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KHRG #98-04 Part 6/7 (Camp attacks)



                    ATTACKS ON KAREN REFUGEE CAMPS: 1998

           An Independent Report by the Karen Human Rights Group
                     May 29, 1998     /     KHRG #98-04

  *** PART 6 OF 7; SEE OTHER POSTINGS FOR OTHER PARTS OF THIS REPORT ***

_________________________________________________________________________

                       Maw Ker Interviews

                              #M1.
NAME:    "Saw Kaser Doh"   SEX: M   AGE: 40+   Karen Buddhist
FAMILY:  Married, 5 children aged 5-23         INTERVIEWED: 28/3/98 
ADDRESS: Kawkareik township; now in Section 6 of Maw Ker refugee camp 
         for 5 years

Q:  Why did you come to live in the camp?
A:  I have been in Maw Ker for five years.  I dared not stay in my village 
because the Burmese soldiers tortured us, so we came to stay in the camp.

Q:  Can you tell me what happened that night?
A:  I haven't heard anything before, but that night I saw something
strange.  
I saw someone holding a torch light [outside the camp], and he turned the 
light on.  I told the security [Karen security], "I saw a light over
there."  
The security told me, "Maybe it was a Thai hunter", so we just stayed 
there, waiting and listening.  I was staying with the sentries.  There were

four or five sentries.  At that time it was 1 a.m. so we were sleepy.  We 
slept less than one hour, then they shot at us and we ran.  We had to run, 
because we had nothing [to shoot back with].  They came into the camp at 
half past one.  They came on foot, by the path beside the Monastery.  First

four soldiers came and they spoke Karen, they said, "Taw, taw, taw!" ["Go 
on, go on, go on!" in Karen].  After that Burmese soldiers came also; they 
said, "Dteh! Dteh! Dteh!!"  ["Go on! Go on! Go on!!" in Burmese].  They 
shot at us with 79's [M79 grenade launchers] and 2 1/2-inch [mortars].  
They shot with heavy weapons and they fired small guns.  I didn't see  any 
RPG's [rocket-propelled grenades].  If  the soldiers had shot at us with an

RPG, we would all be dead now.   An M79 shell landed near us.  It didn't 
hit me but my friend Kyaw Wah got injured.

I couldn't do anything.  They shot at us, I ran back home and my friends 
ran to the monastery.   I ran back home and I called out to everyone [to 
warn them], but I couldn't call all the people and I ran into a bunker.  
When I reached the bunker, the soldiers were also arriving and they were 
burning the houses.  They shot their guns and burned the houses at the 
same time.  They shot for nearly one hour.  The first place they shot up 
was Section 6.  Some soldiers could have been injured because they shot at 
each other by mistake.  One group entered the camp and another group 
stayed behind them, so when the second group fired their guns the shells 
landed near their friends.  

Q:  Did you hear them saying anything?
A:  They didn't say anything around me.  They asked the people who live 
in Section 6 about the Muslims, they said: "Where are the Muslims' 
houses?"  The one who asked the question spoke Karen.  When they 
arrived in section four, their commander came to call them back and they 
went back.  The commander talked to his soldiers in Karen.

In the dark, it looked like they were wearing streaked [camouflage] 
uniforms.  Their hats looked like  Burmese Army hats.  I can't say what 
guns they were carrying.  I think M16 and AK[47].  They were not drunk.  
I didn't hear if they will come back again.  We were too much afraid.  I 
was afraid that they would shoot at me and the bullet would hit me.


Q:  Did the Thai soldiers shoot at them?
A:  No, they didn't fire their guns but one group of Thai soldiers stayed 
near the Ler Ghaw Kee road and they fired one or two times.  When the 
Burmese soldiers fired into the camp, the Thais fired back only one or two 
times.

Q:  Which sections were burned down?
A:   Sections 6 and 7, they didn't burn the other sections.  Fifty houses 
were burned down and one monastery.  Its name was Than Manee 
Monastery.  They shot at it and they burned it.  They also set fire to the 
other monastery [Wah Lay monastery] but the big monastery didn't burn, 
only the small one burned down.  The  fire also burned down the 
community hall.  The fire truck came after the shooting.  We also tried to 
put out the fire.  They came to put out the fire with water just before 
sunrise.

Q:  Since then have the Thai soldiers said anything?
A:  No, they didn't say anything at first, but yesterday the Thai soldiers 
said, "Don't run away, we think that they will not come again".   Now they 
come and guard the villagers all day.  They said to us, "If you hear 
something, please tell us".  But I don't understand Thai language, so I
don't 
understand exactly what they said.
___________________________________________________________________________
                              #M2.
1) NAME:  "Saw Say Muh"   SEX: M   AGE: 30+     Karen
2) NAME:  "Naw Paw Thu"   SEX: F   AGE: 30+     Karen
FAMILY:   Married, 2 children aged 5 and 8      INTERVIEWED: 28/3/98 
ADDRESS:  Hlaing Bwe township; now in Section 6 of Maw Ker refugee camp 
          for only 1 month

["Saw Say Muh" and "Naw Paw Thu" are married, and only recently 
arrived in Maw Ker.]

Q:  Can you tell me what happened that night?
"Saw Say Muh":  The soldiers entered the camp and burned down the 
houses.  We heard them calling "Go on, go on!"  I don't know which way 
they came into the camp, because when I heard the shells I ran into the 
bunker.  They fired a lot of  heavy weapons.  They fired both heavy 
weapons and small weapons.  I saw a shell from an M79.  We stayed in the 
bunker because they were shelling us with heavy weapons.  At that time 
they hadn't burned my house yet.
Boy:  They fired [M]79, AK[47], M16, and rifle grenades.  They started 
to burn the houses at 1:15 a.m.
"Naw Paw Thu":  We heard the soldiers who came up in front shouting 
at the soldiers who were behind them firing their guns, "Nga lo ma tha!!  
Why are you firing your guns while we are in front of you?" ['Nga lo ma 
tha!' is Burmese for 'Motherfuckers!']  They talked like this.  We stayed
in 
the bunker and we heard.  When we were hiding in the bunker, the soldiers 
called us so we got out from the bunker.  A soldier asked me, "Where is 
your village?"  I said, "Our village is Lay Po Paw Ler".
"Saw Say Muh":  I saw two soldiers.  They asked me, "Are you a 
villager?"  I said, "Yes, I am a villager".  The soldiers told us to get
out,  so 
we got out of the bunker and they burned down our house.  One soldier 
carried an AK[47] and another soldier carried a Karen bag, an Esso oil 
bottle and a lighter.  He poured the Esso oil on the house and set fire to
it.   
Then they shot at the house and they said, "Go in the bunker".  They spoke 
Karen.  One soldier wore a plain colour uniform and the other one wore a 
camouflage uniform, but I didn't see their hats.  After the soldiers had 
burned the other houses, they burned down the Than Manee Monastery on 
their way back, then they went straight to the road and left the camp.

Q:   Could you save your belongings?
"Saw Say Muh":  We kept our things in my Auntie's house, and all of 
them were burned.
"Naw Paw Thu":  Every night I went to sleep there, while my husband 
slept alone at home.

Q:  What time did the Thai soldiers and the fire truck come?
"Saw Say Muh":  The Thai soldiers came just before sunrise, and they 
fired their heavy weapons just before sunrise.  They couldn't shoot at them

[DKBA and SPDC] because they were already far away  from the camp.  
They had already gone back and probably reached their camp by then.  I 
am sure they could have reached their camp if they went straight, because 
the distance from here to Wah Lay is not far.  When the fire truck came, 
the villagers had already put out the fire.  It was already half past two
in 
the morning.  When the people put out the fire, our house had already 
burned down.  There were two sections burned down, Sections 6 and 7.  
The other sections were not burned down.  There were 45 houses in 
Section 6 and 5 houses in section 7 burned down.  The total was 50 
houses.
___________________________________________________________________________
                                #M3.
NAME:    "Daw Sein"      SEX: F   AGE: 25    Pwo Karen Buddhist
FAMILY:  Married, 1 child                    INTERVIEWED: 23/3/98 
ADDRESS: Dooplaya District; now in Maw Ker refugee camp

["Daw Sein" was wounded in the attack and was interviewed in hospital.]

Q:  When and how were you wounded?
A:  I was not sleeping when I heard the heavy weapon, I was breastfeeding 
my child.  I went down to the ground and my husband told me, "Don't run, 
they are firing big weapons and a lot of shells are landing".  I dared not 
stay so I took my child and I ran outside the house.  My sarong was falling

down so I told my husband, 'Carry the baby'.  He held it, I tied my sarong 
and then I told my husband, "Give me back the baby".  My husband didn't 
give it to me because he didn't want me to run.  A lot of bullets landed in

front of me. I covered myself like this [with her hands] and when they 
started firing I was wounded in my hand.  I was wounded by small guns, 
not by the big ones.  If they'd only fired one bullet I wouldn't have been 
wounded, but many bullets were flying, it sounded like ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta!  
They also fired a lot of big shells in Section Six.  

Q:  Did many people get injured?
A:  In Section 6 I'm the only one who got seriously injured.  My finger's 
bone was broken in pieces so they had to cut off my finger.  Another was a 
sentry, he was wounded in his back and in his leg.  Another one was 
wounded in the head.  Both are from Section 6 but I don't know their 
names.  In Section 6, five people were wounded.  One woman had a shell 
land on her house and she was injured in the elbow and on her buttock.  
She didn't come to the hospital.  The Gawlawa ['white foreigners', i.e. 
MSF doctors] came and took us to the hospital, me and one man.  He is 22 
years old but I don't know his name.  He stayed in Section 6.  The others 
didn't get serious injuries, just minor injuries, so they sent them to Maw 
Ker hospital.  There is a clinic and a nurse there.

Q:  Have you heard about the Muslims who got injured?
A:  The Muslim woman here, her husband and her baby were both 
wounded.  I don't know where she was wounded, but her baby's legs are 
broken [the mother's name is Nha Ma Chan, age 25; her baby boy is seven 
days old, named Tha Tha].  Now they are also staying in the hospital.  I 
dare not look.  One pregnant Muslim woman from Maw Ker was also 
wounded, but I don't know where.  She doesn't live in Section 6 because in 
Section 6 there are no Muslims, so maybe she stays in Section 7 or 8.

Q:  Did you see the soldiers?
A:  Yes I saw them.  They spoke Pwo Karen, Sgaw Karen and Burmese.  
The Burmese [soldiers] were behind the Karen soldiers.  The DKBA 
burned the houses and they called out, "Burn, burn!"  They spoke in Pwo 
Karen.  I could hear because I stayed inside the bunker when they started 
to burn the houses.  I was already wounded.  They shouted, "Burn, burn!"  
The Burmese were behind them - they stayed behind the monastery, and 
the DKBA didn't burn the monastery.  We had two monasteries; Than 
Manee monastery is Burmese and Wah Lay monastery is Pwo Karen.  The 
Burmese monastery is completely burned down, and so is the hall [beside 
it], but Wah Lay monastery was not burned.  The Burmese fired their guns 
until the DKBA called to them in Burmese language, "Don't fire, don't 
fire!"  And then the Burmese didn't fire.  When they fired it was only 
villagers who got injured.  They sat in front of our house and they fired,
so 
how could we run?

Q:  Do you know how many soldiers came?
A:  Maybe 40 or 50 soldiers came.  I had to carry my baby and my fingers 
were wounded, so  I didn't have time to look.  I don't know how they 
came; they didn't come by car.  They fired big weapons, two or three 
shells, and then they fired their guns.  They shot a lot of bullets, and
then 
they burned the houses.  In our section over 40 houses were burned.  My 
house was burned.  My house was near the monastery.  In Section 6, 44 
houses were burned.   No houses burned in Section 4, but some did in 
Sections 7 and 8.  I don't know exactly because when I got injured 
someone brought me to the hospital and the section leader didn't come to 
tell us.
___________________________________________________________________________
                                #M4.
NAME:    "Saw Say Po"     SEX: M   AGE: 30+    Sgaw Karen
FAMILY:  Married, children                     INTERVIEWED: 23/3/98 
ADDRESS: Dooplaya District; now in Section 1 of Maw Ker refugee camp

["Saw Say Po"'s daughter was wounded in the attack.]

Q:  When was your daughter wounded?
A:  My daughter was wounded last night, at about midnight or one o'clock.  
Her name is Moo Rah Paw.  She is two years and two months old.  She got 
injured in her lower jaw by a big shell.

Q:  I thought that in section one there were no casualties?
A:  Yes, there were casualties in section one and also in section three. In

section one there were my daughter and two others who got just a few 
fragments.  The other two are in the beds over there.  One is injured on
her 
hip and the other in her leg.  The one who got injured in the leg is Than 
Than Yi, she is 28 years old - the pieces entered her thigh.  The other is 
Say Lway Paw, she is 26.  The baby there is only seven days old, he got 
injured and his father, his mother and his whole family got injured. Now 
there is no one to take care of him so I help him.  His mother is in very
bad 
condition, the shell fragments penetrated her lungs, all over her back and 
in her buttocks.


Q:  Did the houses burn in Section 1?
A:  In section one the houses didn't burn.  They [soldiers] entered section

6, and only in sections six and seven the houses burned.  I don't know how 
many houses burned.  When I left, the fire trucks were going into the 
camp.  I saw many fire trucks from a distance.

Q:  Do you think the attackers were Burmese, DKBA or Karen Peace 
Army?
A:  I don't know, but I heard that it was one who joined the Burmese 
Army, his name is Maung Chit Thu.  Burmese.  I don't know if he is 
DKBA or KPA, we only heard that he joined the Burmese.  [Maung Chit 
Thu is a DKBA commander from further north in Pa'an District, who was 
reportedly brought in for the attack by the SPDC because the local DKBA 
did not want to attack the camp.]  I didn't see the soldiers, but some
people 
in Section 6 said they saw them.  They said that they were young, just 
children.
___________________________________________________________________________
                                #M5.
NAME:    "Saw Tha Muh"    SEX: M   AGE: 20+   Pwo Karen
FAMILY:  Single                               INTERVIEWED: 23/3/98 
ADDRESS: Dooplaya District; now in Section 6 of Maw Ker refugee camp

["Saw Tha Muh" was wounded during the attack.]

Q:  Are there any pieces of the shell left in your thigh?
A:  I don't know.  I don't know if I was wounded by big weapons or by 
guns.  I was the sentry at the gate, I was sleeping and I ran very quickly.

Q:  Did you see the soldiers?
A:  Yes, I saw all of them.  About twenty or thirty came.  I saw Burmese 
soldiers and DKBA, I saw all of them.  I don't know what they were 
wearing, it looked like Burmese soldiers' uniforms.  I dared not look 
anymore, I ran.  They didn't come by car, they just came.   In the evening 
we saw people with lights going along the other road [not the road near 
the gate].  That night we had to be careful because the situation was not 
good.  And after one or two hours I told the other [refugee] security that
I 
would sleep for a while and I slept on the ground.

Q:  Did they fire big weapons?
A:  I don't know if it was the Burmese or the Thais firing big weapons.  A 
lot of Thai soldiers came and many people were mixed together.  We saw 
the Burmese and the DKBA coming from behind the monastery, they 
called "Dteh! Dteh! Dteh!!"  ["Go on! Go on! Go on!!" in Burmese].  
After they went back, Thai soldiers came to the camp and put out the fire 
but they didn't fire any guns, they only came and looked around.  Many 
houses burned in Section 6 and I can't tell how many people were injured 
there.

Q:  Did you hear them [the attackers] say that they will come again?
A:  No, I didn't hear them say that.

Q:  Did you come here [to hospital] with any friends?
A:  Yes, that boy there stays in the camp.  He got injured like me.  He 
didn't see the soldiers, he was sleeping with his wife in his house.  There
is 
also this woman who is laying down there, but I don't know her name.  
The other patients are in the [Thai] hospital.
__________________________________________________________________________
                                #M6.
NAME:    "Saw Eh K'Lu"   SEX: M   AGE: 24     Karen Buddhist
FAMILY:  Married, 1 child aged 18 months      INTERVIEWED: 28/3/98 
ADDRESS: Pa'an District; now in Section 6 of Maw Ker refugee camp 
         for 3 years

Q:  What did you see the night of the attack?
A:  I don't know how many soldiers entered the camp, maybe more than 
30 or 40 soldiers.  We woke up when they started to fire big guns.  I had 
no watch and I wouldn't have thought to look at a watch anyway.  Then the 
soldiers came to my house.  I didn't know that they were coming.  When I 
heard the explosions, they reached the house and I ran down to the bunker. 

Then I looked at them.  I saw just three or four soldiers.  They were all 
wearing the same Burmese uniform, a black uniform.  They also wore 
yellow scarves.  I saw yellow on their shoulders but I dared not look 
closely.  They were holding guns.  I saw one RPG [rocket-propelled 
grenade launcher].  They spoke Sgaw Karen.  They didn't say anything to 
me, because I was in the bunker.  I heard them asking where the Muslims' 
houses were.  I heard some soldiers speaking Burmese, they were staying 
near the monastery.  I heard them but we didn't see the soldiers who stayed

behind the monastery.  Then the soldiers said, "Burn this house".  My 
house was the first they burned down, it was house number xxx.  
Everything was burned except my child's clothes.   It took them about five 
minutes to burn the houses nearby.  Then they moved near the monastery.

Another man:  They entered separately, they entered in three groups.  One 
group went straight to his house, the second group went to Section 7, and 
the third group stayed behind the monastery.  After they burned the houses 
they all went near the monastery and then left the camp.  We heard that it 
was not the DKBA who live here [just across the border from Maw Ker], 
they were from further away and the name of their chief is Chit Thu 
[Maung Chit Thu, a DKBA commander in Pa'an District further north].
 
Q:  Can you build a new house?
A:  We have some plastic sheeting.  What we will do depends on the 
authorities.  If they give the order, we will build a new house.
___________________________________________________________________________
                               #M7.
NAME:    "Naw Ghay Hser"   SEX: F   AGE: 24   Sgaw Karen Christian
FAMILY:  Married, 2 children aged 1 and 3     INTERVIEWED: 28/3/98 
ADDRESS: Dooplaya District; now in Section 7 of Maw Ker refugee camp

Q:  For how long have you been living in Maw Ker?
A:  We have been staying in Maw Ker for a long time.  When the situation 
was good we went back and stayed beside the river [in Burma].  Then 
when the situation there got too bad we came back here, and we've been 
staying here for 3 years since then.

Q:  Can you tell me what happened that night?
A:  During the night we were sleeping, but we dared not sleep in our 
bunker so we ran to another bunker.  They shot for a short time, not even 
an hour.  We heard the soldiers calling, "Go on! Go on! Go on!" in Karen, 
and one asked his friend for a lighter.  Another soldier said, "Don't burn,

please don't burn", but they set fire to the houses.  After they had
finished 
setting fire to the houses, all the men [in the bunker] stood up and looked

around.  They saw the fire burning down the houses, so we got out and 
started to run.  I was afraid and I took my children away.  I looked at my 
watch and it was half past one.  We ran directly to the main road of the 
camp.  I don't know what happened after that because I had already run 
away, but others who stayed behind said they heard the soldiers asking, 
"Where are the Muslims' houses?" and they answered, "Sections 7 and 8".  
Some people saw the soldiers.  They were Karen and they were wearing 
short pants.  We didn't see the soldiers, we just heard them.   When they 
entered, they met a man with his wife.  That man and his wife were afraid 
of them so they said to the soldiers, "Don't kill us, don't kill us".  The 
soldiers said: "We won't kill you.  Many soldiers are coming.  Go in the 
bunker." After that they burned down the houses.  They didn't do anything 
to the people because they had no weapons in their hands.  They only 
burned down the houses, they didn't hurt people because we are all Karen, 
we don't want to hurt each other.  But the Burmese soldiers were staying 
behind, and they fired shells into the camp.

Q:  Do you know how many families are now homeless?
A:  Fifty houses burned down.  About five houses burned down in Section 
7, and many houses burned down in Section 6.
___________________________________________________________________________
                               #M8.
NAME:    "Pi Lah Say"   SEX: F   AGE: 55    Karen Buddhist
FAMILY:  Married, 6 children aged 13-30     INTERVIEWED: 28/3/98 
ADDRESS: Dooplaya District; now in Section 7 of Maw Ker refugee 
         camp for 2 years

Q:  Can you tell me what happened that night?
A:  They fired their guns first, they didn't burn the camp first.  They 
burned down the camp after they had stopped shooting for quite a long 
time.  They fired big bombs and I also heard the sound of small guns.  
When they were shooting I tried to carry my children but I could only grab 
my child by the legs [because she was panicking].  Then we were hiding 
in the bunker.  We saw two people coming and burning the houses.  When 
the fire started to get bigger we ran away and I fell down on the way.  I
cut 
up my legs so badly that I didn't dare to look at my wounded legs.  

Other people saw the soldiers but I was afraid.  I didn't dare lift my head

up to look, so I didn't see.  The people from that house said they saw two 
soldiers.  The Section 5 leader saw them too because the fire was burning 
brightly.  That was when my house burned down.  Two soldiers came and 
set fire to the houses.  They were saying, "We will burn, we will burn".  
They spoke in Sgaw Karen.  They didn't burn the monastery, but the 
Burmese soldiers' bomb fell on it.

Q:  Do you think that the DKBA is good for Buddhists?
Another woman:  I don't think that they are good for all Buddhists - it 
depends on the luck of the Buddhist who meets the DKBA.  The DKBA 
came and shouted: "Where are the Muslims?" Maybe they hate the 
Muslims.
A:  Yes they really did that, they asked everyone, "Where are the 
Muslims?"

Q:  Do you think you'll rebuild your house here, or will you move?
A:  If we can live here we will live here, if we can't live here we won't. 
I 
will follow the others.  If they dare to live here then I will live here
too, but 
if not then I also won't dare to stay.

    - [END OF PART 6; SEE SUBSEQUENT POSTING FOR PART 7 OF 7] -