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Defector sees Kim's regime as incre



             Running Against History
            Defector sees Kim's regime as increasingly brittle

                        October 15, 1998



    H wang Jang Yop, 75, is the highest-ranking North Korean official to
    have defected. The principal architect of Pyongyang's ideology of juche,
    or self-reliance, he escaped in February 1997 to South Korea, where he
    now lives under Seoul's protection. For 38 years prior to his defection,
    Hwang had mostly worked side by side with the communist north's former
    "Great Leader" Kim Il Sung, and his son, Kim Jong Il. In an exclusive,
    late September interview with Olaf Jahn, Asia correspondent for
    Germany's Axel Springer Group, Hwang provided a rare look at North
    Korean elite politics, the army and Kim's absolute grip on the populace.
    Excerpts:

    Four years after the death of his father, Kim Jong Il occupies his
nation's
    highest post as chairman of the National Defence Committee, but not the
    position of state president, which has been abolished. Is this a sign of
    weakness?

    On the contrary. Kim Jong Il has practically been the sole strongman in
    North Korea since 1974. So, when Kim Il Sung died, Kim Jong Il had already
    had the real power for 20 years. He didn't need the title of state
president.
    And as state president he would have to attend public events. That is
    something he doesn't like. One reason that he tries to appear in public as
    seldom as possible might be in order to maintain his mystique.

    Then is Kim Jong Il responsible for the deadly assault in 1983 on South
    Korean cabinet members in Rangoon and for the bombing of a South
    Korean passenger plane in 1987?

    Absolutely! There is no doubt about it. Every single mission of every spy
    has to be approved by him so the major attacks definitely had his hand
    behind them. This man is a terrorism genius.

    What kind of man is Kim Jong Il? Is he ill?

    Kim Jong Il is healthy. He can think and make decisions very clearly and
    very quickly. He is absolutely impatient and wants to see his orders
    implemented immediately . . . Since his youth he has admired Adolf Hitler
    for his capability to totally control his people. Like Hitler, he
guards his
    power jealously.

    He typically doesn't like to function in public or with institutions.
He does
    everything secretly, behind closed doors, together with a handful of his
    closest advisers. That's why he loves terror and violence. He does not
    convince people, but rather pushes his conviction through by force. As for
    his capabilities . . . he has destroyed the achievements of his father,
he has
    ruined the economy, the people are starving. So as a leader he has failed.
    But still he manages to keep the system running. That means, he is able to
    tie the elite [consisting] of powerful party members and military
leaders to
    himself and to control them.

    What is the army's role today? 

    Kim Jong Il has strengthened the position of the army very much. Today
    his power is dependent mainly on the army, which is the prime example for
    all other organizations in North Korea. In fact, he has transformed the
    former dictatorship of the party into a military-dictatorship. That
suits his
    penchant for force and orders. At the same time, the army does not have
    much political influence.

    How well-informed is North Korea's political elite about international
    events? Where and how are political decisions made?

    The elite consists of fighters of the partisan war and their families,
members
    of the Kim family and very loyal party workers. The inner circle of
this elite
    is well-informed. These people are allowed to visit other countries. They
    have access to TV and radio, and to five special magazines which cover
    world events. They are especially well-treated by the system and enjoy a
    very good life. For that reason they back the regime. Kim Jong Il himself
    has access to several international TV and radio channels. In addition, he
    gets a special newspaper which is printed only for him. Having read it, he
    passes it on to his closest aides. The elite outside the inner circle
gets only
    very little information about what happens abroad.

    Important decisions are made only by Kim Jong Il. His ideas and proposals
    are sent to the party, which implements them into plans. Concrete plans
are
    submitted for his approval. 

    How and where do the elite live?

    They are dispersed throughout 10 guarded ghettos. Kim Jong Il has an area
    to himself. Underground tunnels lead from there to the other ghettos. This
    way Kim can reach nearly every building without being seen. By the way,
    there's a 40-kilometre-long tunnel system surrounding Pyongyang. It will
    provide shelter in case of war. In peace time, it provides a passageway
    primarily for Kim Jong Il.

    To what extent are the elite watched?

    Almost all the time. I myself was watched in my office and at home, in the
    kitchen, the bathroom, the garden; there were bugs and video cameras
    practically everywhere. By the way, this equipment came from the stash of
    the former East German state security service. A technician warned me
    once: "Mr. Hwang, it would be best if you said nothing here."

    How did the elite react to communism's collapse in the East Bloc at the
    end of the 1980s?

    It came initially as a great shock, of course. But later it was
interpreted as
    the result of weak socialism . . . but North Korea, armed with its
ideology of
    juche, did not need to worry. Suddenly it was said: We have to strengthen
    our dictatorship. So after the collapse, the secret services were
drastically
    strengthened. Today there is a secret service for the military, one for
the
    party and a general secret police. This surveillance system encompasses
    the entire population, from the top to the smallest district. Special
emphasis
    is placed on the universities where all disciplines are saturated with
    secret-service moles.

    The former East Germany had niches of criticism--for example, within the
    church. Is there anything comparable in North Korea? 

    There are no niches. Although, officially, freedom of religion exists,
and is
    theoretically guaranteed by law, we don't even have a real church. Two
    churches were built for the World Youth Games in 1986 in Pyongyang but
    only for public-relations purposes. Those that really go there are
    state-ordered "believers." If someone really wanted to attend church, or
    declared allegiance to it, he would be shot within five minutes. The
people
    should only believe in Kim Jong Il.

    You describe the awful poverty in North Korea. Are famine revolts
    possible?

    No, something like that could never happen.

    Even if tens of thousands die from malnutrition or inadequate medical
    care?

    Even then. You must understand that the North Korean system is much
    more brutal and inhumane than Stalinism. It totally and completely
controls
    the soul of the ordinary citizen. Their thoughts have been bombarded for
    decades with propaganda about the heroism of Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il
    . . . Most of these people are simply incapable of thinking about being
    critical. Anyway, anyone who tries to organize a gathering will be shot.

    On what does the leadership in North Korea base its ideology?

    At the end of the day the "Leader" is the source of life of the
individual.
    Because he lives, they live. He is like God, or like the sun. The
people really
    believe that . . . Every crisis is viewed as a natural catastrophe or
as a result
    of a malicious U.S. policy.

    What about reports that critics of the establishment were imprisoned in
    gulags.

    . . . If they weren't shot. Yes, there are two types of prisons.
Members of
    the upper echelons of the elite are detained in labour camps, ordinary
    people are sent to non-arable, isolated areas in the middle of nowhere
    where they are left to survive on their own. In North Korea there are 10
    such areas and approximately 30,000 "prisoners" living in each. They are,
    of course, never shown to the human-rights groups. 

    Is any change possible?

    Certainly, but as is said among party members, the army must make the
first
    move. [Although it gets preferential treatment, the military] still has
its
    problems. The soldiers, for instance, don't have proper uniforms. The army
    has too little nourishment and demands an ever-increasing portion of state
    food reserves. The decline in troop morale is a big worry in Pyongyang.
    Another catalyst for change could be the dissatisfaction of the normal
    population. Despite all their faith in Kim, their hunger has made them
    unsettled. If only somehow they could be convinced that their predicament
    was due to governmental mistakes and not a natural catastrophe, perhaps
    change could come from the bottom up. The attempt to bring such
    information to the masses must come from South Korea.

    What would happen if Kim Jong Il were to die suddenly? 

    The system is not prepared for it. It would force immediate political
change.
    Not only that, in reality only maybe 20% of the elite really stands behind
    Kim. The others . . . would try to take the chance for change. Many of
them
    have already been hit by the repercussions of the current economic crisis.

    Does the elite really perceive a military threat from South Korea or the
    U.S.? 

    No, they are convinced that North Korea cannot be attacked, even by big
    powers . . . After the Soviet Union and China were lost as allies, North
    Korea has become politically and mentally independent. War scenarios
    serve only the propaganda machine. On the other hand, North Korea still
    believes that it could conquer South Korea--should the Americans ever
    leave the peninsula. This withdrawal is one of Pyongyang's most important
    goals in all its international negotiations. 

    Were you surprised by Pyongyang's recent launch of a missile across
    Japan?

    No, not at all. This kind of three-stage rocket has been in existence
for quite
    some time. I think in 1994 its development was well under way. To my
    knowledge, the technicians had already solved the problem of solid-fuel
for
    those rockets by that time. [The North Koreans waited five days before
    explaining the launch was not of a military rocket] probably because they
    first wanted to be sure that the satellite actually reached its orbit
and that it
    was sending the planned propaganda signals.

    How do you see the system today?

    It will fall. The hardening of the dictatorship and the downturn of the
    economy are indicators of impending decline. I don't know how long Kim
    Jong Il can hold on, but he's running against history. That's why he'll
fail.