KHRG #98-04 Part 5/7 (Camp attacks)

[khrg@xxxxxxxxx]

                    ATTACKS ON KAREN REFUGEE CAMPS: 1998

           An Independent Report by the Karen Human Rights Group
                     May 29, 1998     /     KHRG #98-04

  *** PART 5 OF 7; SEE OTHER POSTINGS FOR OTHER PARTS OF THIS REPORT ***

___________________________________________________________________________
                                 #H8.
NAME:    "Naw K'Paw Wah"  SEX: F   AGE: 45     Sgaw Karen Buddhist
FAMILY:  Married, 5 children aged 2-16         INTERVIEWED: 16/3/98 
ADDRESS: Hlaing Bwe township, Pa'an District; now in Huay Kaloke refugee
camp

["Naw K'Paw Wah" has been in Section 4 of Huay Kaloke camp for four 
years.  Her house was right at the edge of the open field in the middle of 
the camp, and she was wounded in the attack.]

Q:  When did you start running?
A:  When we heard ta-ta-ta-ta-ta! [she made the sound of automatic fire] 
we ran out of my house.  I had no watch but I guess it was midnight.  We 
carried our children and ran.  Then we laid down beside our house.  When 
we heard it the second time we ran beside the monastery and to the fields, 
not far from the banana garden.  I stayed there for quite a long time, and 
after that I came back home again.  When I came back I saw them [the 
soldiers] coming by.  I was hidden behind the toilets when they came.  
They came along the main road [the camp's main thoroughfare], then they 
went to the market.  They marched quickly, chouay chouay chouay [she 
made the sound of rapid marching].  They were in a group, many soldiers, 
you couldn't count.  Maybe around 30 soldiers.  They didn't see me but I 
saw them clearly.  They were very close.  The distance between me and 
them was the length of a house.  If I had looked carefully I could have
seen 
the badges on their arms because of the light of the fire, but I didn't
look at 
them very carefully because of the fire.  They carried guns.  Some of them 
wore Burmese military uniforms and some of them wore streaked 
uniforms.  Two of them wore white shirts.  Some had caps and some had 
Burmese military hats.  I heard them speak only in Karen, Sgaw Karen.

They were coming along and burning the houses along their way.  The 
houses burned down quickly because the roofs were made of thatch.  
When I came back, Section 1 had already burned down completely, and 
Sections 3, 4, and 5 were burning.  When the soldiers arrived, three of 
them entered my house.  They didn't see me.  If they had seen me I don't 
know what they would have said to me.  I heard some people say that 
when the soldiers saw people they threatened to kill them.  I hid myself.  
My children were already in the field, hiding behind the paddy-dikes.

My husband was together with me.  He told me that our children are more 
precious than the possessions in our house, so he asked me to go to the 
children.  So after the soldiers had passed by, I hurried and ran to the 
children, while he stayed here and watched.  The soldiers passed through 
the field here [in the middle of the camp], but they couldn't see me
because 
I was behind a paddy-dike.  I didn't dare to go at first because there was
a 
big fire.  Afterwards, I escaped from the fire and ran to the monastery.  A

monk told me to run that way but I said, "I can't go that way, my children 
are over there [the other way]".  When I kept on running on the high 
ground, they saw me and followed me, and the bullets landed nearer and 
nearer to me.  Many bullets and shells flew over me.  When I reached a 
tree I heard the sound of the guns so I laid down on my belly, near the 
banana trees and the teak tree at the edge of the camp.  The bullets flew 
beside me, ta-ta-ta-ta-ta!  I laid there quietly.  When the bullets stopped

flying, I tried to lift up my body.  As soon as I lifted up my buttocks, 
something hit them and knocked me back down again.  I looked up in the 
tree to see the fruit but I saw that there was no fruit, so then I knew it
was 
a shell that had hit me!  The shell didn't penetrate my buttock, it 
disappeared after it hit me.  I don't know where it flew.  At that time
there 
was fire everywhere.  So I prayed, "Lord, please take care of me", because 
I thought that I would die.  It was really painful and aching.  I couldn't 
stand up.  Then I called my son, "Hay Glaw! Hay Glaw!" He answered me, 
"Wai".   I thought to myself that I wouldn't be able to go to my children, 
but I tried to go to my children.  I could partly stand up, then I pulled
my 
leg [she demonstrated trying to walk doubled over, gasping and limping].  
I was bleeding.  My children were in front of me, a little far from me, 
about 10 metres away, but when I reached the place where they were they 
were sitting down, looking at me sadly.  I told them that I'd been wounded 
by a shell.  Then I saw a man and I called him.  "Wai, Doh Pu Sha!" 
["Hallo, friend!"]  He didn't answer anything to me, so I laid down for a 
while.  I saw a monk.  I called the monk and asked him to send me my 
husband.  He agreed but he disappeared for a long time and I didn't see my 
husband coming.  Then I saw a woman and called her.  I asked her for 
some tobacco because I wanted to smoke and she gave me some.  When I 
was smoking, everyone who walked by came to see me.  

Some people told the Thai soldiers about me and the Thai soldiers came to 
me.  At that time my husband was arriving.  The Thai soldiers asked my 
husband to carry me.  He was going to take me to the monastery but I said 
that there's no hospital in the camp, so I'd rather go where the Thai
soldiers 
asked me to go.  Then they sent me to the water truck [the Thai fire
truck].  
I waited for a long time.  There was no hospital car coming.  The water 
truck started to leave, then the hospital car arrived and my husband put me

in the hospital car.  Inside that car the wind was blowing.  I looked for
the 
window that was open but the windows were closed.  I couldn't understand 
how the wind could blow through the glass of the car, but the wind blew a 
lot and made me very cold [she had never experienced air conditioning 
before].  My husband thought that I was unconscious and he called me, 
"Naw, Naw" and I answered him, "It is cold".  When I reached the hospital 
the nurse put some medicine on my wound and put me in a bed.  I covered 
myself with a sarong, I was shivering cold.  The nurses came and looked at 
me, then they put me in another bed with blankets.  Then I was warmed up 
and I slept all night until the morning.

Q:  What did the shell look like that hit you?
A:  I don't know because I couldn't see because of the dark night.  I just 
guess.  A small shell I think.  A kind of shell that has yellow colour on
the 
top and black on the bottom.  It was a little bit bigger than a banana.  It
hit 
my buttock right here [she was very lucky, because it appears that she was 
hit by an M79 grenade that didn't explode].
___________________________________________________________________________
                               #H9.
NAME:    "Saw Hsah Hay Mu"  SEX: M   AGE: 33   Sgaw Karen Christian
FAMILY:  Married, 2 children aged 2 and 4      INTERVIEWED: 18/3/98 
ADDRESS: Pa'an Township; now in Section 1 of Huay Kaloke refugee camp

["Saw Hsah Hay Mu" is a medic in Huay Kaloke camp, where he has lived 
since 1984.]

Q:  Can you explain what happened that night?
A:  That night we were on duty.  During the night we spoke together about 
rabies and also about the patients.  We discussed a patient who had 
cerebral malaria.  Then we talked more about malaria, because some 
teachers were coming to teach us how to see it in a microscope.  We had to 
practise looking in the microscope to know how to see the parasite.  We 
went to sleep at 10 p.m. and we slept for one or two hours.  Maybe at 
about 12 p.m. we heard a car coming into the camp.  It stopped near the 
hospital and then went further than the hospital, to the corner of Section
1 
near the fields.  Somebody saw two motorcycles in front of the car and two 
behind, but I didn't see the car or the motorcycles, I just heard the
noise.  
When the car would have been nearly back to the gate, it [the attack] 
happened.

It started with small guns, then just after that big shells landed near the

hospital.  After I heard the guns I went to run outside with my family.  
Before I got outside my wife opened the door, and she got injured in front 
of our house.  She was hit by a bullet and she started bleeding.  At the 
beginning she was bleeding a lot, but then the bleeding decreased bit by
bit 
so I told her, "Let's get away, you can't stay here for long.  We have to
run 
away."  After that DKBA and SLORC came almost to where we were.  
They spoke mostly Karen.  Some spoke Burmese but the others said to 
them, "Don't speak Burmese, you have to speak Karen.  What did the 
leader tell you before coming here?  You have to speak Karen."  So after 
that they spoke only in Karen.

Q:  So you saw the soldiers?
A:  Yes, I saw the soldiers in the fields.  We were sitting together in the

fields and they came around us.  A lot of people were in the fields, maybe 
a hundred.  The other villagers came from section 2, section 3, and also 
from section 4.  About fifteen or sixteen soldiers surrounded us.  They 
looked at us carefully and then they said, "We will kill you all if you
don't 
go back to Burma."  After they had told us that, they went away.  In front 
of us they continued to burn the houses.  We went further into the fields. 

We couldn't stand near where they were burning the houses because it was 
too hot, very hot for our families.  So we had to run away.  We stayed in 
the fields the whole time until the morning.

Q:  Did you see what they were wearing?
A:  Yes, I saw their uniforms very well.  They were like Thai soldiers' 
uniforms [he showed a jacket with camouflage pattern as an example].  
There were also some plain green uniforms.  I saw badges on their 
uniforms, we call it the Bandoola badge [the standard red-and-white 
Burmese Army badge].  But I couldn't see their [Battalion] numbers, 
because when they saw me they said to me, "I will kill you".  They wore 
baseball-style caps and some wore Burmese military hats.  Just some of 
them had caps.  A lot had black hats this shape [like a Burmese Army hat], 
and some had round black hats this shape [a beret].  Some had a yellow 
scarf around their necks.  The others didn't have yellow scarves because 
they were not DKBA.  I could recognise that.  I'm sure that they were 
Burmese soldiers.  The Burmese were wearing Burmese military hats.

Q:  Is your wife better now?
A:  My wife is cured but I could not find the bullet so it is still
painful.  I 
couldn't see the bullet.  It is still inside, but I didn't send my wife to
Mae 
Sot hospital.  I can cure her, but maybe later it will be necessary to
remove 
it.  I can remove it if the wound disappears.

Q:  What do you think they are going to do now with the camp?
A:  If they move the camp it would be better for us, because if we stay 
here I think that the same thing will happen again.  If we continue to stay

here the camp will be burned again.  But if we have to move to Beh Klaw, 
I won't go.  In Beh Klaw the security is not good either.
__________________________________________________________________________
                                #H10.
NAME:     "Saw Eh Doh Htoo"  SEX: M  AGE: 30   Sgaw Karen Christian
FAMILY:   Married, 5 children aged 1-13        INTERVIEWED: 18/3/98 
ADDRESS:  Nyaunglebin District; now in Huay Kaloke refugee camp

["Saw Eh Doh Htoo" has been in Huay Kaloke camp for fourteen years.  
He stays in Section 1.]

Q:  Can you tell me what happened that night?
A:  I can tell.  That night at 11:46 p.m., I saw one car and six
motorcycles 
coming.  The car was a small jeep.  It was an old car.  I didn't see the
car's 
number because it was night time and they didn't have their lights on.  I 
think I saw six soldiers in the car and two on each motorcycle, six 
motorcycles.  All wore streaked [camouflage] uniforms and they had 
weapons but I didn't see what weapons.  They came from section ten, from 
the market.  When they arrived they didn't turn their lights on.  They made

a lot of noise and when they came back they also made a big noise.  When 
they arrived at Section One they stopped for about 5 minutes near the 
stream, then they went further than our house so I didn't see them.  Then I

saw them coming back.  We didn't see them getting out in Section One, 
but maybe they got out in another spot, we don't know.  They still had
their 
lights off.  After they'd been gone for about 30 or 45 minutes, the
shooting 
started.  

Q:  What do you think was the nationality of the men on the motorcycles?
A:  I could not distinguish them.  Usually every time the Thai soldiers 
come they turn their lights on, and the Thai soldiers here know me, if they

see me they call me.  This time, they saw me but they didn't call me.

Q:  Did you see other soldiers after the beginning of the shootings?
A:  I saw more than 60 soldiers in Section One.  They were together.  They 
were Burmese soldiers, they wore streaked uniforms.  Some wore hats like 
this [he indicated a beret], some wore baseball caps and some wore 
Burmese military hats.  I didn't see any insignia on their uniforms because

it was too dark and I dared not go near them.  They spoke in Burmese and 
Karen languages.  They called, "Set fire to the houses and shoot!" in Pwo 
Karen and they called "Run, run!" in Burmese.  I was on the road and they 
shot at me when they met me.  They also shot at the youth chairman, is 
name is Hla Kyi.  He was wounded but I wasn't, and I ran to my house.  
They were shooting with AK, AR, G3, [M]79, and [carbine] rifles.

Q:  What would you say if the Thais tell you to go to Burma or to Beh 
Klaw?
A:  I dare not go back to Burma.  I will say no, and I won't go to Beh 
Klaw.  We need and want to stay in a new place where our lives will be 
safe and where we will also have good security.
___________________________________________________________________________
                                 #H11.
NAME:    "Pu K'Mwee Htoo"  SEX: M   AGE: 58   Sgaw Karen Buddhist
FAMILY:  Married, 7 children aged 6-40        INTERVIEWED: 18/3/98 
ADDRESS: Pa'an Township; now in Huay Kaloke refugee camp

["Pu K'Mwee Htoo" lives in Section 4 of Huay Kaloke camp.]

Q:  That night what happened when you saw that car?
A:  I was not sleeping, I didn't go to bed early, I didn't sleep and I was 
listening.  So when the car came I was not sleeping.  We were afraid and 
we were listening.  When the car came it was just a little bit noisy and
they 
had their lights turned off.  The car was an old jeep without doors driven 
by soldiers.  I saw four motorcycles behind the car.  They came from this 
way [from the market and the main entrance] and many people saw that.  
They stopped the car and we thought that they were going to visit the other

houses.  Four soldiers got out of the car.  I didn't hear them [talking]
and I 
don't know what they were wearing, maybe black or camouflage, because 
it was a little bit far from the house.  Then the car went back and there 
were no soldiers in the car.  I think there was only the driver left when I

saw the car.  If there had been other soldiers in the car we would have
seen 
them, because there were no doors.  That car comes to the camp all the 
time.  It is black.  We thought that they were just coming through like
they 
often do.  But they didn't go further [than the school], they went back.  I

think that they came and drove people in.  There were 3 on each 
motorcycle, and when they went back there were 2 on each motorcycle.
 
Q:  What did you do after that?
A:  I didn't do anything, I went to take a rest.  About 20 minutes after
the 
car had gone back, the explosions started.  I heard the explosions and I
ran 
to the toilets [the school toilets, which are made of concrete].  They saw 
me and they fired their guns near the toilets.  They shot at me with small 
guns.  Later we picked up the shell cases and they were AK[47] bullets.  I 
stayed in the toilets until the fire went out.  I didn't see them because I

dared not get out.  I dared not lift my head up to look outside. They shot 
nonstop.  The shell of a big weapon landed near me so I dared not lift up 
my head.  But I heard them going and swearing in Burmese when they 
came and shot up the school's library.  I came out of the toilets when all 
the soldiers were gone.
___________________________________________________________________________
                                #H12.
NAME:    "Saw Tamla"   SEX: M   AGE: 50     Sgaw Karen Buddhist
FAMILY:  Married, 5 children aged 15-22     INTERVIEWED: 18/3/98 
ADDRESS: Pa'an District; now in Huay Kaloke refugee camp

["Saw Tamla" stays in Section 5 of Huay Kaloke camp.]

Q:  Can you tell me what happened to you that night?
A:  I started by running to the field.  Then bullets were flying around us,
so 
my children and my wife didn't dare to stay in the fields, and they ran
away 
over there - not as far as the Thai village, just to the stream.  After
they 
left, I stayed and looked after our things.  A group of Thai soldiers came 
along and they said, "Go, go, go!" and they forced the other people and me 
to go to the stream in the direction they showed us.  Then I went to the 
road and I saw the Aw Saw [Thai volunteer militia].  I asked them 
permission to go to look after my things because I was afraid that my 
things would be lost.  They asked me, "Where are your things?"  I told 
them my things were in the field, and the Aw Saw gave me permission to 
go.   I went to my things and when I arrived there, Thai [Army] soldiers 
told me, "Run, why don't you run, what are you doing here?"  They didn't 
know that I'd asked permission of the Aw Saw to come back.  Then I said, 
"Wait, wait, I will put my slippers on".  The Thai soldiers said, "You
can't 
put your slippers on", and then they beat me on the nape of my neck and 
they kicked my back.  I didn't fall down but the kick pushed me forward 
and I kept on running.  I didn't see them beating other people but I dared 
not  say anything and I ran away.  I ran to the place where they'd gathered

other people.  I went to stay there with my friends.  There were 7 or 8 
[Thai] soldiers there, maybe more than ten.  I think more than ten, some 
were waiting for us and some were gathering us together.  They ordered us 
to stay there, maybe forty or fifty of us.  They told us to stay together
and 
not to go anywhere.  I don't understand much Thai language.  I know a few 
words, like "go, go", "wait, wait", or "go quickly", that's all.  Later we 
came back [to the camp, after the fire].
__________________________________________________________________________
                                 #H13.
NAME:    "Pi Ber Tha"   SEX: F   AGE: 70       Sgaw Karen Buddhist
FAMILY:  Married, 2 children aged 32 and 40    INTERVIEWED: 18/3/98 
ADDRESS: Pa'an District; now in Huay Kaloke refugee camp

["Pi Ber Tha" stays in Section 6 of Huay Kaloke camp.]

Q:  Where did you run that night?
A:   I ran to the field.  When the Thai soldiers came they talked in Thai 
language and I didn't understand.  They wanted us to come back and to 
stay together but we didn't understand.  The Thai soldiers came and hit one

man, his name is U K---, some called him Maung D---; before he was a 
monk, and now he has a wife.  He fell down and I was afraid because I 
saw the Thai soldiers beat him.  I don't know what the soldiers told that 
man.  They just made some noise in Thai [she imitated the sound of Thai 
speech].  Then Maung D--- and his wife went away; me too, but I walked 
slowly behind them.  I wanted to walk quickly but I couldn't.  I fell down 
and after I stood up a Thai soldier talked to me in Thai.  I didn't
understand 
and the Thai soldier kicked my back once and I fell down to the ground.  It

was very painful and I was crying, and my stomach was in pain.  I cried in 
the dark.  They wanted us to gather and to stay together but I didn't 
understand what he said so I was very sad.  I thought that he was drunk. 
If 
we don't understand he has to show us.  They are young and they are 
drinking all the time.  It is my fate.  When I stayed with my mother my 
mother never hit me like that.  Now they hit me like that, and my stomach 
is still in a lot of pain.

Q:  How many soldiers did you see?
A:  Only one came and met me, but a lot were staying on the other side of 
the field.  They were carrying guns.  I was afraid.
___________________________________________________________________________
                                 #H14.
NAME:    "Saw Klaw Wah"   SEX: M   AGE: 47   Sgaw Karen Christian
FAMILY:  Married, 4 children aged 4-14       INTERVIEWED: 17/3/98 
ADDRESS: Pa'an Township; now in Huay Kaloke refugee camp

Q:  When did you start to run?
A:  I don't know.  I slept for a few hours and suddenly woke up when I 
heard weapons firing, and I ran away.  I carried my youngest son.  I didn't

know what time it was.  I wanted to save my things, but the Thai soldiers 
wanted us to sit down in the fields.  They didn't allow us to go back.  I 
decided to go back and went to ask whether we could go or not, but I didn't

get to ask anything because one Thai soldier kicked me, while one of his 
friends sat and looked at me.  Most of the people saw me when I was 
kicked.  He kicked me two times, once in the chest and once in the waist.  
I didn't fall down but I nearly did.  I couldn't breathe very well after I
was 
kicked.  When the Thai soldier kicked me the first time I passed urine, and

then when I turned around he beat me with his gun.  That happened at 3 
a.m.  He told me to go back and sit with my friends.  Some of my friends 
were kicked as well.  Then the Thai soldiers called each other and went 
back.  The left side of my back swelled up.  It was very painful on both 
sides when I coughed.  I went to the clinic to get medicine.  There are no 
visible wounds but I'm still on medicine and it is still painful inside my 
body.  I feel better when I take medicine.  


Q:   Did  the Thai soldiers beat anybody else ? 
A:   First they only beat me, and then they beat some other people.  They 
beat Maung N--- and A?'s mother.  They also beat some women.  In the 
morning people said that some had been kicked and slapped by the Thai 
soldiers.  

Q:   How long did you stay in the fields?
A:  We stayed about 20 minutes and then the Aw Saw [Thai volunteer 
militia] came, so we asked them permission to go back to save our things 
and they let us go back.  But most people stayed there and didn't ask 
permission.

Q:   Do you want to stay here or go to Beh Klaw?  Where do you want to 
go?
A:   It depends on the [camp] leaders.  I'll go and stay anywhere that it's

possible to live, but I'm afraid to go to Beh Klaw.
___________________________________________________________________________
                                 #H15.
NAME:    "Saw Lay Htoo"   SEX: M   AGE: 50    Sgaw Karen Christian
FAMILY:  Married, 4 children aged 10-16       INTERVIEWED: 17/3/98 
ADDRESS: Pa'an Township; now in Section 5 of Huay Kaloke refugee camp

["Saw Lay Htoo" was very sick and weak with tuberculosis at the time of 
the attack.]

Q:   When did you see the Thai soldiers?
A:  I fled to the fields and I saw the Thai soldiers there.  I'm sick so I 
couldn't carry anything, but my children carried some of my things.  I saw 
about 17 Thai soldiers, they were carrying AR guns and wore streaked 
uniforms like KNU soldiers.  They said, "You are  Karen so come here", 
and then I went to them and they said, "Go and stay at the bridge".  At the

bridge we saw the Aw Saw [Thai volunteer militia].  We asked permission 
to go back and save our things because we were afraid that everything 
would burn in our houses, but then when we came back another team of 
soldiers saw us.  They told us to quickly come to them but I told them to 
wait.  I didn't understand Thai so the Thai soldier slapped and punched me.
 
He hit me twice.  I felt dizzy after he hit me, because I was sick.  Then I

saw one grandmother ['pi', i.e. elderly woman] who was kicked by the 
Thai soldier.  It was about 2 or 3 a.m. when he beat me.

Q:   Will you go to Beh Klaw if you have to?
A:   Yes, I'll go if we have to, because we can't stay here.  I will go 
together with other people wherever they go.  It depends on the [camp] 
leaders.  I just hope I can get some medicine to cure my illness.
__________________________________________________________________________

   - [END OF PART 5; SEE SUBSEQUENT POSTINGS FOR PARTS 6 AND 7] -